AX/Track ideas, locations Options

[Howard]

No time like the present to start delegating. IMHO AX is fun, but getting out on a real track beats bending pylons.

Willow wants $2000-3000 to rent 'streets' for the day. Price varies on time of year, but weekdays are obviously cheaper. If we again get a turnout of 75 cars, that's about $30 per car plus $10 track entry per person. There are other costs, so figure $50 per WCC entry.

Assuming other area tracks cost about the same, that seems affordable. But we would need staffing for flags, timing, instructors, safety class, yada yada. Drew, would you be willing to organize this? I'm sure that POC would love to have us in smaller doses for their track days, but do you think they would want 70+ teeners? Would they want everyone to join POC? You know them better, so please see what you can find out.

MikeZ, SB PCA is having their monthly Ventura breakfast @ Camarillo airport 7/3. Thought I would crash, and see what's cooking there. Why are you pissed at them? Anything that would affect AX? Is the SLO group better?

Slits, Toast. Please look into inbred empire locations.

Scott, said you knew some OC/SD Porsche people? What are our options there? Lagunero, any ideas?

Having the event in Spring or Fall gives us more options since we don't need to fight inland heat, and hotel rates are usually lower. I know that may hurt because of vacation schedules, but as Drew said, there weren't many school age kids @2004.

Hopefully we'll have more info when we meet at the deli. Once the track part is going, the rest should fall into place. Opinion again, but I'm not that concerned with tying into swap meets and such unless they happen to fall into our track plans.

[rick 918-S]

Having the event in Spring or Fall gives us more options since we don't need to fight inland heat, and hotel rates are usually lower.  I know that may hurt because of vacation schedules, but as Drew said, there weren't many school age kids @2004.  

Hopefully we'll have more info when we meet at the deli.  Once the track part is going, the rest should fall into place.  Opinion again, but I'm not that concerned with tying into swap meets and such unless they happen to fall into our track plans.

I had a thought with regard to school age kids. they do get a week for spring break. That may work out too. The begining of June is not good with finals and stuff like proms, etc. But early spring may allow more families to attend. Just a thought.

[drew365]

Howard; Since several of the recent POC short track events have had over 100 cars and I believe they say 120 is the max. I'm not sure we could squeeze in but I'll keep thinking about it and see what Marty thinks about it. Trying to squeeze that many cars into one run group might be like rush hour commuting. Trying to do our own day at the track still brings up the insurance question.
I feel there may be a considerable number of attendees that don't mind giving an AX a try but would feel intimidated by a full track event even the streets. Don't know for sure, it's just a thought.
If you could find out the possibility of a Ventura AX the weekend of the German Autofest it might be a consideration.

[skline]

What would be way cool would be to tie into the Long Beach Gran Prix and use that track, but I think that is just dreaming. I will check with some people I know down here and have the info for the meeting. I dont think there is a snowballs chance in hell of doing the LBGP track.

[seanery]

I, for one, wouldn't drive my car at the LBGP. Too damn many walls. Also, there is absolutely no way we could get in there.

[VegasRacer]

Forget the LBGP.
Let's just go to this track.
I have a contact who works there as a Marshall.

[Howard]

Cute, let's just hit the 'ring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Spoke to Willow today. Here is breakdown for 'Streets'. Weekday 8am to 5pm.

Track rental $2000
Event Insurance 667 $5mil
EMS Services w/paramed 350

Total $3017.

Weekends are pretty much all taken, Fridays add a charge of $10 admission per person. Plenty of room to set up AX and still have track available.

No limit on number of cars/drivers. Fast enough that would need instructors, corner workers, flag and safety class. But loads of track time without horning in on anyone's party. Mini restaurant at big track, and we can get a roach coach out.

Forget June to September. It's 100 in the shade and no shade. Could we get enough players on a Thursday or Monday in April to have this make sense? We could go to a nice place to stay (the beach?), and make this a one night stand to open or close the event. It's a little over 2 hours drive from LAX.

Can we get pricing on other locations?

Willow

[seanery]

Howard, do they need an insurable identity?

100 bucks each - 31 people.

sounds reasonable to me.
do we have enough instructors?
I've never run the streets course, is it spin-off friendly?

[seanery]

I've done the big track, but never streets, so I din't know if there were walls, fences or anything nearby.

[Howard]

Slits, not at all. Just trying to get some numbers in the mill. Not sure if I want to piggy back whole event or have our own party. With you and Toast as entertainment co-chairs, I'm already going into training.

Sean, friendly track. 3 times as 'technical' as big track at half average speed. Faster than AX, but mainly 2nd and 3rd with a dab into 4th on main straight for 4 bangers. Hopefully it will be 100 @$31 each, and will go for sponsors (listening Otto?).

Race instructors, no. If we use any track, believe we should adopt POC's formula of corner line diagram class, then being driven around the correct line by an experienced driver in a sedan, then 3 classes: novice 1, intermediate 2, and racer 3. 1's ride with 2's for a couple of laps, 2's with 3's, 3's show off or drive 1's and 2's around.

Track provides short term insurance coverage with them as the named insured, and a certificate of add'l insurance to '914world.com and its members as their interests may appear'.

Buttonwillow can do the same, not sure about others.

[Toast]

Several people bitched (including myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) ) about the price of 2004 WCC registration.

If people complained about the $30 entry fee for the AX, then wouldn't they have a bit of a problem paying the additional $100 to do an AX?

Does the AX NEED to be on a track? Wasn't it in a parking lot last year?

Plus, Scott has complained about traveling distances. Streets of Willow is 70 miles from Riverside. Yea, its probably closer from OC, but it is till at least an hour drive! Plus nothing nearby for familys. Plus in the dry, hot dessert.

Just saying..........

[seanery]

streets wouldn't be an autocross, it would be a real track day, more than 1 car on the track at a time.

[Howard]

Toast, I'm not even sold the we need AX/track to make event a success. We could go to a Golf and Stuff and hold a triathalon of mini golf, malibu cars, and arcade. Or Dave and Buster's!!

But everyone keeps telling me we need to exercise the 914's. I'm getting a little old for street racing, so it's AX or Track. As Sean noted, track day with instruction, multiple cars on the track (but no passing except in the one straight), is a hell of a lot better than 10 AX events.

As to cost, don't worry. Let's say we get 75 cars and 25 add'l attendees for WCC 2005. $150 entry, $30 for add'ls gives us almost $12k to work with before sponsor $$. I think it's OK to assign $3k for the track day. 50 AXers at someone elses venue @$30 per car is $1500. I'll bet we can get sponsors to pay the difference.

With the exception of the Glen, 'ring, Mosport, Monaco, and a few others, auto tracks are built to take advantage of cheap real estate, not natural beauty. Any competition events will be held in hellhole locations. I don't think the overall event should be housed at any of them. Rather have one 75 mile commute at the beginning or end of the event.

As to the entire event location, worry. San Jose was obvious up north as most of the admins are in bay area. We shlepped in from all over and paid lodging, food and gas bills they did not. The real test of this is how many NorCal types make the trip down. Track would do it; AX may not.

Unless the event is held within 20 minutes of my home I figure to be in the hotel. Not many of us will be lucky enough to commute, so the biggest cost of WCC will be food and lodging.

[seanery]

I think these events work best when almost everyone is staying at the host hotel. Much more time for BSing at the bar and whatnot.

[lagunero]

Lagunero, any ideas?

Nothing Boss. Looks like Willows is doable. But the travel distance/time is still a problem. One of the reasons I had mentioned the expense reports was to see how much from the WCC fee can we count with in regards to AX costs. Toast had/has a good point, what did I pay for? Once the breakfast was rescheduled to 7'ish, it made it impossible for me to make it, therefore missing the breakfast, 17 mi. drive (money in bag that Andy later gave me had the 8.50) and not to mention the boxed lunch for my son and I. Soooooo...100 on top of that for Willow? No thanks. I share my experience so you can see why many questioned the fee. Once we know what we can afford with the 04 budget we can plan events that are enticing and worth the trouble. I believe most people are willing to pay for quality entertainment and a real track is something to consider.

[skline]

I have to agree, a full track day would be great and I would not mind driving for that. I dont even care much about the temps. I like the idea, a lot. One track day, one beach party day. That would take care of 2 days, how many days are we talking aobut having this? Is there a way we could have like a tech session at one of these places? I know the beach would be more of a party thing, and teh track would be more of a race thing, maybe we could have a day of tech sessions if everyone is so interested in that. I always thought the tech sessions would be little weekend things at someones shop with only about 8 or 10 guys show up. I dont see families coming together and listening to technical crap about cars.

[lagunero]

I starting writing the previous at 3ish (I'm busy at work and can't always finish what I start). Sean, BSing at the lobby didn't really happen until Sat. night and since most members are from that area, at least I didn't see them at the hotel. On Friday after Laguna we kinda hung out at the parking lot but no beer. It was fun but I (like most) will like to see more organized after event get togethers, making it posible to have a Willows and not participate in that and still know that I can see the members laters that day/night.

[drew365]

Slits; I don't think we should be ruling out the Festival of Speed. I think we're all just pulling stuff out of the air seeing if anything sounds good. When does the presentation need to be submitted? Before or after the July 10 meeting?

[Howard]

Whoa! It would not be an additional fee. And where did the $100 number come from?

\\Rant on, not aimed at you, Alberto..
How much should we charge? We're not trying to make a profit, but can't have a loss. I'm sure we'll all end up donating time and $$ to the cause without compensation. I bought and printed the name tags for 04, didn't get a dime, or even a public thank you. That's what being a volunteer is all about.

I'm thinking $150 entry per car, about the same as taking the family to a Dodger game (hot dogs, parking, beverages, etc.) Think it's too much? Give me a number. You get to bring the whole family (or support group) for no add'l entry fee, just pay for their meals and lodging. That's a friggin' bargain.
\\Rant off.

If we get 80 @ $150 that's $12k. Is it worth taking 25% of that toward track rental for a day? That's what we'll have to decide. That will leave us 9k for shirts, meals, and goodie bags. But track or AX or lunch or winery tour will not be a separate charge. Everyone pays the entry fee and goes to each event as they see fit. We can drop the entry fee and offer less.

But all we need to decide now is, Our own track or someone else's AX?

[Howard]

Andy, I was writing my diatribe as you posted festival of speed stuff. It all sounds good, and you're right, these are idea tossing. There is no time cutoff for the decision, but sooner is better, especially if we are using another club's event(s) or trying to rent a track.

We aren't 'submitting' this to anyone, just trying to put on an enjoyable weekend.