 For My Next Trick, Minimum Cost /6 Converion, An experiment to show low cost done well. |
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| Series9 |
 Jul 29 2011, 09:27 AM
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#1
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Lesbians taste like chicken.  Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States  |
It occurs to me that we've been throwing around some pretty big numbers in my 3.2 exploits of late.
I want to see how little I can spend converting Luckie's 914, but still do the job correctly. Here are the parameters: The engine has to be no larger than 2.4. This will save us the major expense of having to provide external cooling. The oil system will only be tank and lines. The 2.4 will use an early 901 911 flywheel, which I should be able to find used. It will also use a stock clutch. The goal on this one will be finished for $5k. I sourced a core 2.2T engine for $300. Since it was so little, I have quite a bit of room to fix whatever it needs, but 911 parts get expensive fast. I'm going with Megasquirt II fuel injection possibly on a custom-built intake manifold. This arrangement will not use the expensive 914/6 bellcrank conversion, but rather a simple 914/4 stock throttle cable. Current expenditures listed below: Engine mount: $90 2.2T engine (long block, delivered): $195 (cost adjusted for unneeded parts sold off) Megasquirt II ECU: $85 FI components (relay board cables and wiring): $219.25 Intake: $55 Headers: $168 Crank-fire pulley kit: $175 Blast headers: $10 POR-20 for the headers: $37.02 Current total $1034.27 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sunglasses.gif) |
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| kconway |
Jul 29 2011, 09:32 AM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,347 Joined: 6-December 04 From: Monrovia, CA Member No.: 3,231 Region Association: Southern California |
Donations are cheating and will skew the data of the experiment! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
This sounds alot like what I'm doing, but i've already gone over the $5K mark. |
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| VaccaRabite |
Jul 29 2011, 09:35 AM
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#3
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,465 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
It's an aggressive budget. Trekkor was able to keep the costs down on his 6 but I heard he had to then redo a bunch of stuff soon after. I'll be interested to see how this goes. If you can do it, please document it for the rest of us!
Zach |
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| Series9 |
Jul 29 2011, 09:43 AM
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#4
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Jul 29 2011, 11:35 AM)  It's an aggressive budget. Trekkor was able to keep the costs down on his 6 but I heard he had to then redo a bunch of stuff soon after. I'll be interested to see how this goes. If you can do it, please document it for the rest of us! Zach It will be fully documented. That's the point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| mepstein |
Jul 29 2011, 09:51 AM
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#5
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,324 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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To do a low cost conversion, a lot of it will depend on how you value your time. A lot of the time I've spent on my car I can chalk up to a fun hobby and an education but if this was a paying job, it might be cheaper just to order parts from a catalog. If guys like Eric Shea, Scotty B, ect. charged me for their advise, the build would be unaffordable to me
* just my thoughts, not a criticism to anyone. |
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| Jeffs9146 |
Jul 29 2011, 10:01 AM
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#6
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Ski Bum Group: Members Posts: 4,062 Joined: 10-January 03 From: Discovery Bay, Ca Member No.: 128 |
I have a custom made oil tank that was in a race car that I will donate!
It mounts under the trunk above the axcels and opens, fills and checks the oil through the trunk! Just pay shipping and packaging from 94505! Attached thumbnail(s) 
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| Series9 |
Jul 29 2011, 10:08 AM
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#7
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(mepstein @ Jul 29 2011, 11:51 AM) To do a low cost conversion, a lot of it will depend on how you value your time. A lot of the time I've spent on my car I can chalk up to a fun hobby and an education but if this was a paying job, it might be cheaper just to order parts from a catalog. If guys like Eric Shea, Scotty B, ect. charged me for their advise, the build would be unaffordable to me * just my thoughts, not a criticism to anyone. This will obviously not take the time into consideration. It will be intended as a guide for do-it-yourselfers as to what they can expect as a minimum reasonable cost to have a decent /6 conversion. |
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| Series9 |
Jul 29 2011, 10:13 AM
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#8
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ Jul 29 2011, 12:01 PM) I have a custom made oil tank that was in a race car that I will donate! It mounts under the trunk above the axcels and opens, fills and checks the oil through the trunk! Just pay shipping and packaging from 94505! Man, that thing is ugly. But, I'll have a look. How much to ship? |
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| J P Stein |
Jul 29 2011, 10:14 AM
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#9
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
To make it accurate you'll not want to us your undoubtly wide range of contacts for freebies. Duplicate the average DIY guy doing the deed with just normal access to bits and you will have it. Good luck with that budget.
My old running 2.4L T motor with Webers cost 2400 bucks from Asse bros.....several years back. DIY guys do shop around. BTW, I wouldn't use a crossbar mount if you paid me to take it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) |
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| shoguneagle |
Jul 29 2011, 10:15 AM
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#10
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shoguneagle Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 3-January 03 From: CA, OR, AZ (CAZOR); New Mexico Member No.: 84 Region Association: Northern California |
Joe,
This looks like a great project. I really like the 2.2 and 2.4 engines. I do have a 914-6 oil tank which I could part with; only after you see pictures we will talk. Just setting here so you might as well have it; will need some money though, but not anywhere near the level for used tanks. It has been cleaned and pressured checked. I have the console, dipstick and housing somewhere around here along with the possibility of the metric adaptor from 27mm(?) for the oil tank. May have some other items you can use. I did find out a little more regarding the DMEs for the 1984-86 and 1987-89 3.2 engines. The essential difference is the 84-86 and nonprogrammable with 24 pins and programs burned into the chip; 87-89 is programmable with 28 pins. I am still unsure about the o2 sensor being just on the 87-89 and not on the 84-86. Hopefully, I will get a nonrepairable DME to tear apart to see what makes it tick and give me a basis to talk to knowledgeable experts. I find this very interesting. Excellent, excellent project. Let us see if we can help you and Luckie on this project. Will get back to you. Steve Hurt |
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| Series9 |
Jul 29 2011, 10:26 AM
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#11
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(shoguneagle @ Jul 29 2011, 12:15 PM) Joe, This looks like a great project. I really like the 2.2 and 2.4 engines. I do have a 914-6 oil tank which I could part with; only after you see pictures we will talk. Just setting here so you might as well have it; will need some money though, but not anywhere near the level for used tanks. It has been cleaned and pressured checked. I have the console, dipstick and housing somewhere around here along with the possibility of the metric adaptor from 27mm(?) for the oil tank. May have some other items you can use. I did find out a little more regarding the DMEs for the 1984-86 and 1987-89 3.2 engines. The essential difference is the 84-86 and nonprogrammable with 24 pins and programs burned into the chip; 87-89 is programmable with 28 pins. I am still unsure about the o2 sensor being just on the 87-89 and not on the 84-86. Hopefully, I will get a nonrepairable DME to tear apart to see what makes it tick and give me a basis to talk to knowledgeable experts. I find this very interesting. Excellent, excellent project. Let us see if we can help you and Luckie on this project. Will get back to you. Steve Hurt Get me the info on the tank. It sounds like something I'd like to get from you. JP is right, for this to be a reasonable cost guide, I'm going to have to pay for the parts. I am going to use the cross-bar mount though. There is absolutely nothing fundamentally wrong with mounting a /6 to the same (very strong) /4 positions on the chassis. Most people on a budget would take the same route. |
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| Jeffs9146 |
Jul 29 2011, 10:33 AM
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#12
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Ski Bum Group: Members Posts: 4,062 Joined: 10-January 03 From: Discovery Bay, Ca Member No.: 128 |
QUOTE Man, that thing is ugly. But, I'll have a look. How much to ship? Yes it is, but it is a Tank........literaly!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I don't think it will fit into a flat rate box and it is heavy maybe 7 or 8 pounds! It doesn't include the filters or lines either! Let me know if you want it! If not, it is available to anyone who wants a cheap hillbilly tank for thier cheap hillbilly car...FREE!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| Series9 |
Jul 29 2011, 10:41 AM
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#13
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ Jul 29 2011, 12:33 PM) QUOTE Man, that thing is ugly. But, I'll have a look. How much to ship? Yes it is, but it is a Tank........literaly!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I don't think it will fit into a flat rate box and it is heavy maybe 7 or 8 pounds! It doesn't include the filters or lines either! Let me know if you want it! If not, it is available to anyone who wants a cheap hillbilly tank for thier cheap hillbilly car...FREE!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) After considering JP's comment and the fact that I stated "done correctly" at the outset, I have reconsidered. Let someone else have it. But, I appreciate the offer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| Series9 |
Jul 29 2011, 10:45 AM
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#14
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 29 2011, 12:14 PM) To make it accurate you'll not want to us your undoubtly wide range of contacts for freebies. OK JP. I'm not taking the free "tank", but I want you to notice that someone else, who doesn't have my "wide range of contacts", may also have it for free. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 29 2011, 10:53 AM
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#15
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,688 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(kconway @ Jul 29 2011, 08:32 AM) Donations are cheating and will skew the data of the experiment! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I think 5k is possible for a small /6 without relying on donations ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
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| Series9 |
Jul 29 2011, 10:56 AM
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#16
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 29 2011, 12:53 PM) QUOTE(kconway @ Jul 29 2011, 08:32 AM) Donations are cheating and will skew the data of the experiment! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I think 5k is possible for a small /6 without relying on donations ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) As you can see, I started a running total at the bottom of the first post. I listed the free engine mount for $100, which is a fair market value. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 29 2011, 11:05 AM
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#17
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,688 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 29 2011, 09:56 AM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) I've seen 911 oil tanks used. They don't fit behind the fender and mounting them in the trunk is butt ugly. Maybe if you relocated the relay board there's enough space for one inside the engine bay? The upside of a 911 tank would be a working oil level sending unit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif) |
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| Andyrew |
Jul 29 2011, 11:59 AM
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#18
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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Joe,
I think that as long as you list parts at their available to average person used (if you get them used) prices, then I think you can use donated parts. IE that custom race tank could be made for probably $200, In fact probably less than that. Since this is an ultra budget 6 conversion I think that this is an acceptable means of oil storage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) However if the cross bar motor mount doesnt hold the engine properly and has been known to fail (I have no clue if this is true..), then This probably shouldnt be incorperated into the conversion. However maybe fabricating some engine mounts yourself would be acceptable. Dont cheat and take dimensions from conversion mounts in your shop, dry mount the engine and fab the mounts in place like the average person would! But all in all, I say go for it! This will be an interesting build! |
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| Drums66 |
Jul 29 2011, 12:35 PM
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#19
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914 Rudiments Group: Members Posts: 5,321 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Coronado,Cali Member No.: 151 Region Association: Southwest Region |
.....The fram filter's scare me more !....oil tank is cool, long as it
holds oil it's good enough! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (bad ju ju with those filter's) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) |
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| Jeffs9146 |
Jul 29 2011, 12:41 PM
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#20
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Ski Bum Group: Members Posts: 4,062 Joined: 10-January 03 From: Discovery Bay, Ca Member No.: 128 |
QUOTE(Drums66 @ Jul 29 2011, 11:35 AM) .....The fram filter's scare me more !....oil tank is cool, long as it holds oil it's good enough! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (bad ju ju with those filter's) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) The filter consol is kind of cool minus the bracket. It has the AN connectors and everything! Attached thumbnail(s) 
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