2.0 Rebuild Advice Needed, 2056 or 2270? Options

[john_g]

I'm getting ready to rebuild my 2.0 and am considering going to either 2056, or maybe even up to 2270. What are the downsides or problems associated with going 2270, if any?

[r_towle]

More work, worse rod ratio than a 2056.
Higher chance of ring wear.

It really depends what you are looking for, but a 2056 is a nice motor, refreshed compression and new head work, it will feel a lot more powerful than what you have now.

Rich

[Jake Raby]

Rod ratio is no worse if the engine is designed correctly at 2270cc. Adding stroke= adding rod length to maintain the proper rod ratio.

If you don't ave 2K+ for heads then stay 2056, because a 2270 with less than adequate head work won't make any real power. Bigger isn't better and smarter beats bigger every time.

[john_g]

Jake,
Isn't heat an issue with the 2270, as well? And ... I'd need a modified camshaft with the 2270 also, yes? What about an external oil cooler, wouldn't that be a good idea if I were to go 2270?
At this point, I'm leaning toward 2056.

Rod ratio is no worse if the engine is designed correctly at 2270cc. Adding stroke= adding rod length to maintain the proper rod ratio.

If you don't ave 2K+ for heads then stay 2056, because a 2270 with less than adequate head work won't make any real power. Bigger isn't better and smarter beats bigger every time.

[john_g]

Why would there be a higher chance of ring wear? Is heat an issue here?

More work, worse rod ratio than a 2056.
Higher chance of ring wear.

It really depends what you are looking for, but a 2056 is a nice motor, refreshed compression and new head work, it will feel a lot more powerful than what you have now.

Rich

[john_g]

Another issue, in addition to the questions I have about reliability, longevity, heat, the possible need for an oil cooler, modifying the camshaft, etc. is about EFI. I'm currently running EFI. If I go with a 2056, I believe I can stick with the EFI, but I'll have to go with carbs if I increase to 2270, correct?

[porschefile2010]

From my experience and having stuffed one engine already, if you go 2270 the standard FI won't get enough fuel through. Carbs would be the answer. I would go 2056 if I were you. It seems a nice size engine for these cars

[rwilner]

FWIW -- I went through this decision process last year and decided on 2056. There were lots of reasons for this, but the main reason was that a 2270 requires some case clearancing, which I didn't feel comfortable doing as a first-time engine builder.

Also, I'm no expert but I think the consensus is that you're right -- you're going to need a new induction system for the 2270. So, add at least $2k for that if you go that route.

[r_towle]

Djet can handle more displacement, just not more stroke.
Up to 2.4 liter as far as I know.

BUT
I would suggest if heat is another one of your concerns, stick with the 2056.

Bigger displacement of much more than that may require external oil cooling and if you stroke it, it will require a new induction system.

Carbs run maybe 1k all in.
EFI could be 2k all in, and I have not seen a decent bolt on application for these motors, so you will be doing custom tuning, and custom wiring etc.


Rich

[john_g]

Thanks, Rich. I must be a little slow, can you clarify something for me? You're saying that the D-jet can handle it, but will need custom tuning, wiring, etc. to the tune of an additional 2K, right?

And the 2056, doesn't require major modifications to the EFI?

Djet can handle more displacement, just not more stroke.
Up to 2.4 liter as far as I know.

BUT
I would suggest if heat is another one of your concerns, stick with the 2056.

Bigger displacement of much more than that may require external oil cooling and if you stroke it, it will require a new induction system.

Carbs run maybe 1k all in.
EFI could be 2k all in, and I have not seen a decent bolt on application for these motors, so you will be doing custom tuning, and custom wiring etc.


Rich

[Porschef]

If I may chime in... I replaced my defunct 2.0 with a 2056 which now uses Ljet. It's a nice combination, and has plenty more cajones than the previous engine. I can stay out of trouble with it....


Although I been dreaming bout a Suby lately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[r_towle]

Thanks, Rich. I must be a little slow, can you clarify something for me? You're saying that the D-jet can handle it, but will need custom tuning, wiring, etc. to the tune of an additional 2K, right?

And the 2056, doesn't require major modifications to the EFI?

Djet can handle more displacement, just not more stroke.
Up to 2.4 liter as far as I know.

BUT
I would suggest if heat is another one of your concerns, stick with the 2056.

Bigger displacement of much more than that may require external oil cooling and if you stroke it, it will require a new induction system.

Carbs run maybe 1k all in.
EFI could be 2k all in, and I have not seen a decent bolt on application for these motors, so you will be doing custom tuning, and custom wiring etc.


Rich

Djet can go up to 2.4 liter with the 71mm stroke (stock) crank.
That is 103mm pistons.
It cannot deal with a longer stroke.

for the 2270, that is a stroker motor with 96mm pistons and a 78mm crank (stock is 71mm)
That motor (the one you are asking about) requires a custom EFI system with new wiring etc...in the 2k range and there is no off the shelf system available, so you need to know what you are doing, or hire someone who does.

2056 is your best bet.

both the 2270 and the 2.4 liter stock stroke require external oil coolers.
Both motors are tuned and require more maintenance than a 2056 will ever require.

One thing to think about.
McMark (an admin here) has a shop names Original Customs and he will build a 2056 for you that is reliable.

rich

rich

[KELTY360]

Another issue, in addition to the questions I have about reliability, longevity, heat, the possible need for an oil cooler, modifying the camshaft, etc. is about EFI. I'm currently running EFI. If I go with a 2056, I believe I can stick with the EFI, but I'll have to go with carbs if I increase to 2270, correct?

Just to clarify, what EFI system are you currently running?

[john_g]

I'm running the stock EFI system.

Another issue, in addition to the questions I have about reliability, longevity, heat, the possible need for an oil cooler, modifying the camshaft, etc. is about EFI. I'm currently running EFI. If I go with a 2056, I believe I can stick with the EFI, but I'll have to go with carbs if I increase to 2270, correct?

Just to clarify, what EFI system are you currently running?

[john_g]

Thanks, Rich, I get it now.

And yeah, I've had a good impression of McMark already; I installed his modified Speedo unit in the back of my tranny to stop an annoying leak.

Thanks, Rich. I must be a little slow, can you clarify something for me? You're saying that the D-jet can handle it, but will need custom tuning, wiring, etc. to the tune of an additional 2K, right?

And the 2056, doesn't require major modifications to the EFI?

Djet can handle more displacement, just not more stroke.
Up to 2.4 liter as far as I know.

BUT
I would suggest if heat is another one of your concerns, stick with the 2056.

Bigger displacement of much more than that may require external oil cooling and if you stroke it, it will require a new induction system.

Carbs run maybe 1k all in.
EFI could be 2k all in, and I have not seen a decent bolt on application for these motors, so you will be doing custom tuning, and custom wiring etc.


Rich

Djet can go up to 2.4 liter with the 71mm stroke (stock) crank.
That is 103mm pistons.
It cannot deal with a longer stroke.

for the 2270, that is a stroker motor with 96mm pistons and a 78mm crank (stock is 71mm)
That motor (the one you are asking about) requires a custom EFI system with new wiring etc...in the 2k range and there is no off the shelf system available, so you need to know what you are doing, or hire someone who does.

2056 is your best bet.

both the 2270 and the 2.4 liter stock stroke require external oil coolers.
Both motors are tuned and require more maintenance than a 2056 will ever require.

One thing to think about.
McMark (an admin here) has a shop names Original Customs and he will build a 2056 for you that is reliable.

rich

rich

[Jake Raby]

Its been over a decade since we had any thermal control issues.

Pretty much the 2270 is the only engine combination that we work with now, we won't even build a single 2056 this entire year since the schedule already stretches into 2014 I know this..

Again, if you don't have the required coin for proper heads, then stick with the 2056, because you'll just be spinning your wheels.

Smarter beats larger every single time.

[john_g]

Its been over a decade since we had any thermal control issues.

Pretty much the 2270 is the only engine combination that we work with now, we won't even build a single 2056 this entire year since the schedule already stretches into 2014 I know this..

Again, if you don't have the required coin for proper heads, then stick with the 2056, because you'll just be spinning your wheels.

Smarter beats larger every single time.

Thanks, Jake. So, you don't use an external oil cooler in your 2270's?

[Jake Raby]

Its been over a decade since we had any thermal control issues.

Pretty much the 2270 is the only engine combination that we work with now, we won't even build a single 2056 this entire year since the schedule already stretches into 2014 I know this..

Again, if you don't have the required coin for proper heads, then stick with the 2056, because you'll just be spinning your wheels.

Smarter beats larger every single time.

Thanks, Jake. So, you don't use an external oil cooler in your 2270's?

Totally dependent upon application and climate

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: May 17 2013, 02:52 PM

[AE354803]

Djet can go up to 2.4 liter with the 71mm stroke (stock) crank.
That is 103mm pistons.
It cannot deal with a longer stroke.

rich

Rich, just a curiosity, why can't the Djet system deal with a longer stroke?

If the capacity of the engine is the same why would it matter whether it was because of a larger diameter or a longer stroke, the FI is most concerned with the flow of air into the engine? I would expect the flow rate of air into the cylinder to be essentially the same at a given RPM if everything else was identical.

You can see from the graph that the change in volume (flow) into cylinders follows the same basic path. (the 103 mm x 71 yields a larger displacement than 96 mm x 78.4 but even if it's changed to 101 mm it still follows approximately the same curve) You can see how the rod length affects the curve by essentially flattening it as length increases.

Again I have no idea, but this surprised me.

Andy

[john_g]

Its been over a decade since we had any thermal control issues.

Pretty much the 2270 is the only engine combination that we work with now, we won't even build a single 2056 this entire year since the schedule already stretches into 2014 I know this..

Again, if you don't have the required coin for proper heads, then stick with the 2056, because you'll just be spinning your wheels.

Smarter beats larger every single time.

Thanks, Jake. So, you don't use an external oil cooler in your 2270's?

Totally dependent upon application and climate

Given those two factors, I should be good w/o one, since I live in western Canada and this is strictly for street use. Again, thanks for the advice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)