Front end upgrades Options

[-JR-]

I'd like to hear from guys who have upgraded their front ends and what they chose VS what engine's they are running.

I was looking at a 935 suspension setup tonight as a possibility.

I would like to at least mount the black Brembo brakes to the car, I don't think I'll need to go as extreme as the "Big Red's" for my 3.2 car. So if anyone can suggest what cars to get suspensions from to do this I would appreciate the tips!

James

[Mueller]

QUOTE

I was looking at a 935 suspension setup tonight as a possibility.

How much $$$$ ???

why??

is this a dedicated track car?

do you need the adjustibility of the 935 type suspension? or just want the bragging rights?? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

will you be taking the car to a professional shop to fine tune it?, if not, you are really wasting your money, it's not a typical bolt on and run down to the local tire shop for an alignment type of modification.

for a street/track use car, you should be happy with going with SC front struts (or whatever ones have the 3.5" caliper spacing), (or full suspension if you feel that you'll need bigger torsion bars than the 22mm that are available for the 914)

[pete-stevers]

full SC is ample bolts right in... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

[-JR-]

I'm building for about...

20% - track
60% - Autocross
20% - Street

My 928 has fully adjustable front and rear suspension now and I've had lots of fun with it. In a good way. I've already found myself a full race G50 trans with a externally adjustable diff.

I'll take a look at what comes on the SC cars though. Thanks for the tips!

James

[skline]

I am in the market for an SC front end also. That way I can upgrade to the bigger brakes. One of these days. When I have money.

[-JR-]

Based on your recommendations I fired up my Porsche parts catalog.

The SC just has those puny little cast iron dual piston calipers.

I'm looking for at least what seems to come on the turbo cars for those years, the 4 piston aluminum calipers. The parts catalog doesn't specify if they are Brembo's but it's a slightly different design with cooling fins on the early turbos. The later cars have a smooth finished caliper (in black) like what came on the 944 turbo's, 928 S4's, 911 Carrera 2 turbos and they were standard on the 911 Carrera's after 94.

PN 930-351-091-03 on the 78 and up turbo's looks like the old style black Brembo brake (with fins)
PN 965-351-423-01 on the 89 and up turbo's look like the newer style which is smooth finished and has PORSCHE script

The 965... caliper has relocated mounting bolting holes, so the bolts go in at the same line as the rotor. Where as the 930... style the mounting bolts fit in at 90deg to the rotor line, which is how the 914 and all SC calipers bolt up. I prefer the 965... style as it looks cleaner and newer.

Looks like I am starting to answer my own questions!

But I'd still like to hear what some of the guys have done with some of the more "trick" front ends.

Thanks!


But I'd still like to hear what some of the guys have done with some of the more "trick" front ends.

THanks!

[lapuwali]

QUOTE

The SC just has those puny little cast iron dual piston calipers.

Which, when combined with the SC vented rotors, seem to be adequate for stopping a car that weighs about 700lbs more than a 914, with 70-100 more hp. If you're looking for "trick" just to be trick, then why stick with Porsche parts? Get a custom setup made using whatever calipers strike your fancy. If you're actually looking for adequate stopping power, the SC setup is generally more than sufficient.

[TimT]

I have 911 front end, aluminum crossmember, raised spindle RSR struts. coilovers, Wilwood billet superlites with 1.25X11.75 rotors on hats.

rear brakes are carreras.

The 944 turbo brakes are more than adequate for cars as light as these. I think the 930 pad and 944T pas are the same size, the 944 caliper is lighter..

the 935 front end is a waste for the applications you listed.

anyhoo get struts with 3.5 in brake mounts. You can radially mount or lug mount a wide range of calipers...alcon brembo,wilwood,ATe

[1973914]

Tim,

Some of my track buddies have given the willwoods a hard time for flexing under heavy load. Any experience with that on your end? That said they were all tail draggers so they were definitely too heavy to begin with (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

My setup is 86 carrera struts with boxster monoblocks with (was with i should say) a type 4 with about 200 hp. Stop all day long from 130 down to 40 without an issue. You will be heavier though no doubt. I also have carrera rear brakes (m-wide). No slave cylinder and a "T" fitted. No prop valve needed.

[Jeroen]

get 911 SC or Carrera 3.2 struts (78 through 89) which have the 3.5" bolt spacing on the brake bracket/ear
Carrera 3.2 front brake disks/rotors
944 turbo or 964 front calipers (4 piston) which will fit the 911 struts with very little modification

[spare time toys]

If you like and know the 928 set up and are going to have to do a custom install anyway.. I got a 928 Im parting and can make you a deal on all the front end stuff. Just a thought.

[SirAndy]

i got a copmplete '86 carrera frontend, as well as '86 carrera brakes in the rear. vented rotors and all.

*PLENTY* of stopping power if you ask me.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) Andy

[John]

We just went with a complete 87 911 turbo front end (Struts/calipers/rotors/crossmember).

We started having some heat issues with our SC rotors/calipers last year when keeping up with the high HP cars. The only places to really make up time on them is in the braking zones and in the corners.

(This is on a dedicated track car)

just my $0.02

[TimT]

QUOTE

Tim, Some of my track buddies have given the willwoods a hard time for flexing under heavy load. Any experience with that on your end? That said they were all tail draggers so they were definitely too heavy to begin with

I havent had any issues with the calipers flexing. my pads wear evenly. Wilwood has revamped the line and has some really nice calipers for reasonable prices.

Precision brakes

[-JR-]

QUOTE (TimT @ Dec 24 2004, 01:50 AM)

I have 911 front end, aluminum crossmember, raised spindle RSR struts. coilovers, Wilwood billet superlites with 1.25X11.75 rotors on hats. rear brakes are carreras.

Thanks everyone for the feeback, that's really helpfull information

TimT, when you say you have a "911" front end, just which parts and out of what year(s)? You also mentioned you have Carrera rear brakes, what year have those come off?



****Does anyone also know of a source(s) for the front end upper strut camber plates?****



I admit this car will probably be "over broke" but I can find the parts at reasonable prices and the later model parts just plain look better too. I'll be running a brake biaser and I may even go so far as to install ABS on the car too. So having the later model parts will make this modification easier.

-JR-

[Mueller]

911 parts and options:

entire front assembly which consists of alum. crossmember, struts, a-arms and torsion bars (911 and 914 a-arms are different in that the number of splines are different so that the torsion bars are not interchangable)

or....

you can swap out just the struts, this gives you the 5 bolt hubs and bigger brake options if you go with the 3.5" caliper spacing

some 911s have an under body swaybar....the thru the body style is better and you have more options for sizes and brands

ABS came out in '89 on the 964 platform, the suspension is totally different and will not bolt on.

so stick with the years that Jeroen mentioned and you'll be okay

SmartRacing has the upper strut camber plates, they must have a "box-section" welded in, not a trival job....

(IMG:http://tcdesignfab.com/9148-3.jpg)

see V8 914 suspension mods

[Eric_Shea]

JR,

I think what everyone is trying to say with regard to the SC front end is get a 911 front end that has the 3.5" caliper spacing. Then you can damn near bolt any big brake you want on the thing.

The "only" thing I don't like about SC front ends is the under-body sway bar set up. The geometry is not ideal when compared to a thru body set-up. You can get either Bilstein or Koni front struts that will have the 3.5 spacing. They'll bolt on early a-arms.

I seem to remember you mentioning a 3.2, if that's the case then try to find a Carrera front end and go from there. Others mentioned that you have a much lighter car... at this point it's your decision. I like to recommend "systems", meaning complete front and rear. If you go for a "Carrera" system then get the same brakes for the rear. If you go Big Reds then get the matching rears. 914's tend to do well with 911 brakes and the proportioning valve removed. If you're going that big I'd spend another $125 and get an adjustable valve.

There's a ton of bolt on options... (as Mike has pointed out).

[Jeroen]

Instead of the front camberplates pictured above (which need welding in a new box section) you could also get Tarret or WEVO top strut mounts, which allow for more neg.camber than the stock mounts and have monoball inserts.

Just to clarify / help you in your search, the 911 SC was build from 78 through 83
The 911 Carrera 3.2 was made from 84 through 89
Both have the aluminum x-member (although some say the earlier steel x-member is stronger and won't flex)
The brakes are the same (piston size and brakepad) but the Carrera 3.2 had thicker rotors (24mm IIRC, but same diameter) and therefore the calipers were spaced differently to fit over the wider rotors

cheers,

Jeroen

[TimT]

QUOTE

TimT, when you say you have a "911" front end, just which parts and out of what year(s)? You also mentioned you have Carrera rear brakes, what year have those come off?

Like E-out. and Ya-roon and Mueller mention there are lots of way to get a 911 front suspension.. do you need a 5 bolt conversion?

My car has 911 a-arms, the alum crossmember, RSR struts...I believe the rear brakes on my car are from a '87 carrera.... but cant be sure.

You can find a part number for the RSR struts in PET... but they were never offered on a street car.

[-JR-]

Mery Christmas everyone, the clock just turned over here...

Those are all good notes.

I have a line on complete SC or Carrera suspensions for cheap. Eric_Shea makes a good point that with those I can bolt on about anything I want. I do like the idea of a fully adjustable front end and would like to achieve that.

Thanks Jeroen for the cam plate sources, I will look into them. I do have a couple mig welders and a plasma as well, so I can tackle most of the sheet metal myself.

Can the torsion bar be removed and the A-arm used without it, in the coil over scenario?


I will be running coilovers up front and it will certainly be a 5 bolt setup as I want this car to appear as a 914-6 GT, more or less. I guess think of it as a "modern" 914-6 GT. Eventually I would like to have it setup with ABS and the Boxster or 911 instument cluster. I will be using the factory fuel injection on the 3.2 to start and I might go to a mapable engine managment computer in the future as well. So The goal for me is to make it look like Porsche might have rolled this car off their line in the 90's. I've made these electronic retrofits to other cars with great sucess, but never in this scenario. But I have a electronics back ground and don't foresee it to be a major obstacle, just lots of time and research.

I've restored a few cars now, if anyone would like to see my latest car (Triumph TR6 ya I know it's British) here is a link to some of the pics...
76 TR6 Full restoration
There was one thing that bothered me on this car. You TR6 buff's might pick it out but I removed the air pump system as I just plain couldn't find the parts to make it complete.

Thanks again for all the great tips thus far!

Merry Christmas to you all!

-JR-