Opinions on placing car in neutral at stop lights. Options

[Cuda911]

Some people claim that if you are a a stop light with the car in gear, but clutch pushed all the way in, that it wears out the throwout bearing faster.

I had a lengthy discussion about this with one of our 914World member and a 914 guru of the highest Grand Master level (Mugsy). He convinced me that it is fine to idle at a stop light with the car in gear and clutch pushed in. So, that's what I usually do. Every once in awhile it's tough to get the car in 1st, and I don't want some F150 riding over me when the light turns green and I'm on an easter egg gear hunt.

Yesterday I was driving a friend's '71 911, and he started giving me crap for not putting into neutral at lights (Mugsy, you guys got the motor sounding great!).

Just thought it would be interesting to solicit the group and see what your thoughts are on this topic.

[JawjaPorsche]

The heck with the throw out bearing, I don't want to wear out my clutch cable! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Big Len]

IDK, heard that too, but I do both. It just depends how far along the light is when I pull up to it.

[ripper911]

The heck with the throw out bearing, I don't want to wear out my clutch cable! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Bruce Hinds]

If your 1st is hard to get it sounds like you need some adjustment or bushings.

I do both, usually if the light isn't going to change right away I'll get neutral before I stop. Then go for gears when I see the other direction go yellow. I have had the cable break before and that's not something you want to happen when you are sitting at a light, especially if there is a crosswalk.

[era vulgaris]

I'd heard something similar, except that the wear was on the crank bearings. Without the pressure of the clutch against the flywheel, it allows for lateral movement in the crankshaft which can increase end play. It's also why you shouldn't start or stop the engine with the clutch pedal depressed.

I used to own a TR6 and I know that was a well documented issue among the Triumph community with the crank bearings on that car. EVERY Triumph owner I talked to said "neutral at lights, neutral when you start and stop the engine". I've heard similar things from other people in regards to type 1's and type 4's.

Obviously I'm no expert. It'd be nice for one to weigh in on this issue. I also keep an eye out for the cross street light turning yellow, so that I have a few seconds to get into gear if I need it. But I do occasionally have those instances at a light where the car won't go into 1st, and it feels like the guy behind me wants to run me over.

[Ben and Ralph]

I have that problem of finding first sometimes as well and have also heard the same thing. So I usually keep it in neutral and try finding first as soon as the light for cross traffic turns yellow. Does anyone really know if it puts much wear on the bearing?

[SirAndy]

... I do both. It just depends how far along the light is when I pull up to it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

Neutral would leave the main shaft spinning. What's wrong with that? I don't think the owners manual states to leave it in 1st with the clutch pushed in.

I do both depending on the length of the stop light. If the tranny fails, it wil not be at a stop light in neutral.

[Olympic 914]

Similar discussion in the motorcycle community. thought there is to keep it in gear at the light in case something bad is happening behind you and you need to move out of the way quickly.

when I'm the last in line I usually keep it in gear, but if there are cars behind me I will click it into neutral. I figure the cars behind me will absorb some of the blow. and it saves on the clutch cable.

[eric9144]

Similar discussion in the motorcycle community. thought there is to keep it in gear at the light in case something bad is happening behind you and you need to move out of the way quickly.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I'm always in gear, ready to get the F*ck out of the way if I'm about to get hit!

[DBCooper]

Yeah, bikes are a little different. Safety is the big thing, but they also don't tend to last for big miles like cars and their (mostly) wet clutches work a bit differently.

Leaving your foot on the clutch does cause additional wear on the throwout bearing, but the real damage is wear on the engine, specifically crank thrust bearing. I'm sure some people here are familiar with VW engines and being able to pull the crank pulley out, then push it back in, to measure end play that indicates general wear on the engine. If you can move the crank in and out any more than a couple of thousandths the thrust surface on the center main is worn and you're due for an engine rebuild. Almost the only time that surface is stressed in the engine is when the clutch is compressed, pushing against the flywheel and pushing the flywheel and the whole rotating assembly to the front of the engine.

If you're only at the light a few seconds then sure, leave the clutch in. Any more and you're much better off in neutral with your foot on the brake and off the clutch.

[Chris914n6]

I'd heard something similar, except that the wear was on the crank bearings. Without the pressure of the clutch against the flywheel, it allows for lateral movement in the crankshaft which can increase end play. It's also why you shouldn't start or stop the engine with the clutch pedal depressed.

No merit whatsoever. Since sometime in the 80s all manual trans cars have a kill switch to prevent one from starting the car without having the clutch released.

Leaving the clutch engaged adds main shaft rotation and cold thick gear oil to the starter load and is something else for the engine to overcome to run. Another reason not to.

I've been driving stick for 2 decades, I get my foot off the pedal as soon as possible as it puts an unnatural force on the knee joint.

[worn]

Some people claim that if you are a a stop light with the car in gear, but clutch pushed all the way in, that it wears out the throwout bearing faster.

I had a lengthy discussion about this with one of our 914World member and a 914 guru of the highest Grand Master level (Mugsy). He convinced me that it is fine to idle at a stop light with the car in gear and clutch pushed in. So, that's what I usually do. Every once in awhile it's tough to get the car in 1st, and I don't want some F150 riding over me when the light turns green and I'm on an easter egg gear hunt.

Yesterday I was driving a friend's '71 911, and he started giving me crap for not putting into neutral at lights (Mugsy, you guys got the motor sounding great!).

Just thought it would be interesting to solicit the group and see what your thoughts are on this topic.

Well, I learned in drivers ed to have it out of gear. You get nudged by someone and then the foot slips off the clutch and or brake. Of course same applies to the cars with automatics, and they sure don't shift into neutral. Go figure. I like the idea of tuning the system till it actually works most all the time - the I am not wearing stuff out and my foot gets a rest. Bigger problem is I have more than one toy car, but only one with that 901 shift pattern. Fortunately the backup lights let them know you are coming. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

Even with the tranny in neutral and the clutch engaged, the internal parts are spinning. This is evident if you ever jack up the rear of a car with the engine running.

Even if the clutch is disengaged, there is enough drag and kinetic motion to keep parts spinning.

I think the worry is mostly urban legend.

[damesandhotrods]

The 914 and 411 manuals didn’t really talk about these issues, but for starting the Type III the VW manual says depress the clutch when starting below 32 degrees. The only thing I could find about the clutch was also in the Type III manual, it was just don’t use the clutch pedal as a foot rest. The Samba

[boxsterfan]

Step 1: Restore your entire car, bolt-by-bolt, every single thing.

Step 2: Never drive car so that things don't wear out.

[Maltese Falcon]

California DMV driving test = points off /or fail if you are at a stop and not engaged in gear with clutch depressed. Happened to a friend of mine. The examiner was hardcore... also made them back up into an uphill parallel parking space (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
My tech tells me to keep my g50 in neutral at stops, 901 or 915 no preference.
Marty

[DBCooper]

California DMV driving test = points off /or fail if you are at a stop and not engaged in gear with clutch depressed. Happened to a friend of mine. The examiner was hardcore... also made them back up into an uphill parallel parking space (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
My tech tells me to keep my g50 in neutral at stops, 901 or 915 no preference.
Marty

Are you sure? That contradicts what I was taught so I googled it and found this from the California DMV, at http://www.dmv.org/how-to-guides/driving-stick.php:

"When you are coming to a stop, you can do two things: you can depress the clutch and keep the car in gear, getting ready to go again in first; or you can put the shifter in the neutral position and let the clutch back up. It is sometimes good to put a stick shift in neutral while stopped, to ease the strain on your leg and foot, and also to lessen wear and tear on your clutch. When it is time to go again, simply depress the clutch and put the shifter into first gear, and give the vehicle a little gas."

It's for teaching how to drive but I couldn't find anything in the testing criteria, and I doubt they'd say to teach something and then take points off for it.

[BK911]

So how do you guys put it in neutral?
I coast down until the engine is @ idle speed and put in neutral without using the clutch.
At idle speed there is no resistance.