Trust me, I'm a professional . . ., How do we really know? Options

[anderssj]

Finally picked up the 914 yesterday after almost a month at a highly recommended local indie shop (the reason it took a month is another story). I made it about 10 miles towards home before the steering felt funny and there was a clunking from the left front . . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Yeah, you guessed it:







(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

LF lugs weren't tightened/torqued. I guess that I WAS lucky on one level . . . I hadn't decided to take the freeway home.

After jacking up the car and tightening the lug bolts (and checking the others), I drove back to the shop for a "safety briefing" with the owner. Not much said besides "sorry."

When I'm doing multi-step work on the car where I might forget something, I tend to leave sticky notes one the dash or steering wheel ("pump brakes," "torque lugs," etc.). But when a car is in the shop, how do we know they haven't forgotten something and everything is really OK . . . that the valves are properly adjusted, push rod tube keeper wires in place . . . or if a wheel is about to fall off?

And I know that sometimes people make mistakes, that $hit happens, that the exception doesn't prove the rule, etc., etc., but still . . . I guess it comes down to a matter of trust--kind of like buying/eating mushrooms (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

We try to exercise our judgment in picking the best mechanic, shop, doctor, contractor, product, etc., then we pay our $ and take our chances, right?

Sorry for the rant, but this experience has left me kind of pessimistic.

[mepstein]

Everyone makes mistakes. Pros should own up to it and make it right.

[iankarr]

Wow. Super scary. Glad you're ok.

You're right, $hit happens. But not $hit like that. Inexcusable. The fact that it was only one wheel leads me to believe that the tech got distracted and just forgot. The owner of that shop should have taken it way more seriously.

[anderssj]

Everyone makes mistakes. Pros should own up to it and make it right.

I agree . . . I didn't lose my temper or anything--that's why I took the "safety briefing" approach when I got back to the shop--and why I was a little hesitant about posting this. cuddyk was right on--apparently the tech got interrupted. I'm just trying to figure out a good way to avoid things like this in the future.

[JmuRiz]

I've had some come loose...should have torqued, then drove around the block, then re torqued.

Now I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[iankarr]

I'm just trying to figure out a good way to avoid things like this in the future.

Of course, to err is human...but a good hedge is the "preflight check" like pilots do. After each service, I check lug nuts, CV bolts, oil level, all wires in engine bay, ground strap, and connections at battery. A true pro shouldn't mind you doing this before driving off. If they won't let you, you can at least confirm with the mechanic that all of the above are good. Just asking "what were the lug nuts torqued to?" or "Did you check the CV bolts?" could help.

FYI...when I personally work on anything than can hurt or strand me, I take my car to a great local (gray haired) mechanic who "grades my work". Adds another level of comfort...and safety.

[EdwardBlume]

I make mistakes and I own all of them.

[anderssj]

Preflight is a good idea--I've always done a post-MX walk-around, check the oil, etc. Guess I need to take it to the next level (and carry a torque wrench in the car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ).

But while that may be fine for us gear-heads, it still leaves open the question of how those not mechanically "savvy" approach the question. Similar questions apply to having work done on a house, getting medical attention, or whatever. Sorry, maybe this is heading towards a philosophical discussion that belongs in the sandbox?

FWIW, the new-to-me shop has a good rep with the local PCA members (my 914 had around 25 different P-cars and 2 ferraris for company during its stay), and the owner has ~ 40 years experience. Maybe it was just a couple of bad days.

As you said, to err IS human . . . but I sure miss my old mechanic.

Thanks for listening--I appreciate it.

[toolguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii8rC6CPCvM

It's worth the 2 minutes to see. . .

[Tom_T]

I agree . . . I didn't lose my temper or anything--that's why I took the "safety briefing" approach when I got back to the shop--and why I was a little hesitant about posting this. cuddyk was right on--apparently the tech got interrupted. I'm just trying to figure out a good way to avoid things like this in the future.

If all you got was a "sorry" & not even bothering to check the car over for you, re-check TQ on the bolts, etc. - if it were me, then I'd be looking for a different shop!

There's a reason I've been with the same shop for 40+ years!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[mark04usa]

Any professional shop will test drive and recheck their work and catch such mistakes before the car leaves the shop with the customer. Would not trust that shop again...

[0396]

Sorry to hear, I had a coworker that had her GMC service at a local dealer. Upon exiting the dealership, the front wheel fell off. She was lucky as she was headed to the freeway a block away.
Things like this, there's no excuse. It's simple wrenching one n one.

[mepstein]

The wheels tend to fall off at slow speed. High speed force keeps the wheel on the hub.

Happened to my nephew. Tire shop pretty much blew him off and wasn't going to pay for the damage. His dad got involved and they bought him a new jeep. His dad is very convincing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[MMW]

Any professional shop will test drive and recheck their work and catch such mistakes before the car leaves the shop with the customer. Would not trust that shop again...

Not directed at anyone but the above statement is one reason some shops are more money than others. Just think how much time it takes to drive every car you work on to make sure it is o/k, not only what was done but to make sure nothing else is wrong.

When I have no time or lack the needed knowledge my families cars go to a shop that has a high labor rate comparatively. They have super communication & always test drive the cars depending on what work was done. It is never about cutting corners.

I agree that errors are human but I think they should have done a little more than just a "sorry". When you returned not much could be done except do a quick check but the offer of a free service down the road might help smooth things over.

[scotty b]

One of my local customers has a couple BMW's M3 and brought one by for me to look at a few months back. He had a BAD clunk in the L.R. and thought he had a bad CV or wheel bearing. Turned out that the tire shop didn't tighten the lugs on the wheel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) His then pregnant wife was driving this car everyday at the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yeah shit happens, but when your JOB is to change tires, or do any type of suspension work, it SHOULDN'T happen. I personally go over anything I have worked on 2-3 times after the job is done to make sure everything is tight

[JOEPROPER]

I've seen this problem in the past and can say that when you choose a repair facility to work on your vehicle there are a few things you should be looking for in that place. Price and convenience are commonly at the top of the list, however IMHO not as important as experience and quality. Many small shops have the owner, lead tech, service writer, customer relations consultant, advertising agent, lube tech, shuttle driver etc... all wrapped into 1 guy. These types of mistakes happen when the tech is distracted. Whether he has to stop to answer the phone, take out the garbage, drive a customer home or any other task that takes his attention from the job he's working on, that tech is overloaded. Find a shop that has organization, such as a service writer that doesn't allow techs to be distracted.

This type of place is usually more expensive, but with that, they are more profitable and have the resources to service you as the customer better. Let's face it, it's never cheap the get your car fixed, I believe it's worth it to pay a little more $ to get a lot better service.

[mbseto]

High speed force keeps the wheel on the hub.

Sometimes. My dad was driving down the highway in his TR and looked to the side and saw a wheel rolling alongside him. He thought, huh, I wonder whose wheel that is. He managed to stop the car without letting the rear disc touch the ground, dug the wheel out of the ditch where it ended up, screwed it back on and went on his way.

These discussions make me scratch my head- when we talk brakes, everyone thinks you're crazy to do it yourself. I have a whole lot more motivation to pay attention to my brakes than some new-hire teenager at a shop or dealer. If you have a shop you trust, great. I find them exceedingly hard to find.

[rhodyguy]

Reminder post it on the driver's window and torque wrench on the driver's seat. Makes it hard to forget when I'm having a 'senior moment'.

[Geezer914]

This is why I do all my own work. If you don't know how, find someone who does so you can watch and learn. Plenty of how too videos on you tube. I was watching a you tube video on a lube & oil change place in Canada scamming customers. A customer would go in to get an oil change for $19.95. They would upsell to $29.95 for better oil. Then they would check the fluids and tell the customer they needed a brake fluid flush and coolant flush. The funny part is they would return in 10 minutes with a bill for $281.00 and tell the customer his car was ready! You are lucky to do a half assed oil change in 10 minutes, let alone a brake fluid and coolant flush. What proof do you have that they used the $29.95 oil instead of the recycled drain oil? Did they change the filter or clean off the old one? If you must go to a garage, always ask for the old parts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

[gandalf_025]

I've known my mechanic for almost 40 years.. I trust him 100%.
I don't have his personal cell phone number but my wife does and
when she calls him to say she has an issue with her 911.. He reacts.
I don't call him.... I let her call for me.. Much better response time.

He is a friend... as was the man he bought the shop from many years ago..

I consider myself very lucky...