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> Push-Rod Tube Leaks., Is there a trick / technique that works ?
Beebo Kanelle
post Sep 30 2016, 04:24 PM
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Need a little wisdom. I installed one of Chris's exhaust systems ( It works beyond a expectations!!!! ) and pulled the push-rod tubes so I could install new Viton O-Rings.

Now, I have two tubes that leak. I watched my trusty Raby Type IV rebuild DVD and first time, straight motor oil. The second time I tried a dab of grease. Both to no avail.

These leaks are tiny; just a drop every 3-5 minutes... but one of them is dripping onto the header!

Are there any secrets ? mystery goo / sealers to use.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
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cary
post Sep 30 2016, 05:10 PM
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I used NAPA/Permatex Thread Sealant w/Teflon #765-1188. Five years and no leaks.
I think the preferred products are now Loctite and Curil. Take a spin thru the Type 4 Store web site and see what they are selling.
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TheCabinetmaker
post Sep 30 2016, 05:44 PM
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+1 on the Teflon thread sealant.
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Elliot Cannon
post Sep 30 2016, 06:00 PM
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High temp RTV. Works great. Just be careful to clean it up good. FAT Perfromance uses it and if it's good enough for FAT, etc. etc.


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injunmort
post Sep 30 2016, 06:27 PM
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i use hylomar on the seals before installing. you can also use permatex red anorobic non hardening sealant as well. i just put a smear around the o-ring.
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Beebo Kanelle
post Sep 30 2016, 07:07 PM
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Thanks to everybody.

I'm on it.
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Krieger
post Sep 30 2016, 11:57 PM
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I did mine exactly like Elliot's except I used Permatex Ultra Copper. I have 0 leaks. Oh and I put the engine together in 1995 and first ran in 2000...
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Dave_Darling
post Oct 1 2016, 12:08 AM
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Clean the bores where the O-rings go thoroughly. Make sure they are smooth, with no casting lines or anything else to snag on.

I do not recommend any sealant that hardens. Like RTV. The tubes are supposed to slide in and out of the head; the wire retainers push them in toward the center of the engine but the outer end has to be able to slide in the bore. RTV as shown in Elliot's pic will eventually fail. I'm frankly surprised that it hasn't failed already...

--DD
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r_towle
post Oct 1 2016, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Sep 30 2016, 08:00 PM) *

High temp RTV. Works great. Just be careful to clean it up good. FAT Perfromance uses it and if it's good enough for FAT, etc. etc.

As the Cap'n rolls in his grave.
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mark04usa
post Oct 1 2016, 03:12 PM
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[/quote]
As the Cap'n rolls in his grave.
[/quote]
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I was wondering when someone would mention that RTV and other such sealants are a very bad idea for use on push rod tube seals, since the parts need to move as things heat up and cool down...that expansion and contraction stuff.

I am surprised that so many folks are so quick to offer such poor advice... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) wish that the Cap'n were here to offer proper admonishment.

With the correct seals for the engine, properly installed....the push rod tubes do not leak. No sealant or RTV or other such goop is needed or desirable.
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rjames
post Oct 1 2016, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE


I was wondering when someone would mention that RTV and other such sealants are a very bad idea for use on push rod tube seals, since the parts need to move as things heat up and cool down...that expansion and contraction stuff.

I am surprised that so many folks are so quick to offer such poor advice... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) wish that the Cap'n were here to offer proper admonishment.

With the correct seals for the engine, properly installed....the push rod tubes do not leak. No sealant or RTV or other such goop is needed or desirable.



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
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Elliot Cannon
post Oct 1 2016, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Sep 30 2016, 11:08 PM) *

Clean the bores where the O-rings go thoroughly. Make sure they are smooth, with no casting lines or anything else to snag on.

I do not recommend any sealant that hardens. Like RTV. The tubes are supposed to slide in and out of the head; the wire retainers push them in toward the center of the engine but the outer end has to be able to slide in the bore. RTV as shown in Elliot's pic will eventually fail. I'm frankly surprised that it hasn't failed already...

--DD


I hasn't failed in 13 years. I'll keep waiting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
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Elliot Cannon
post Oct 1 2016, 03:55 PM
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[quote name='mark04usa' date='Oct 1 2016, 02:12 PM' post='2405737']
[/quote]
As the Cap'n rolls in his grave.
[/quote]
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I was wondering when someone would mention that RTV and other such sealants are a very bad idea for use on push rod tube seals, since the parts need to move as things heat up and cool down...that expansion and contraction stuff.

I am surprised that so many folks are so quick to offer such poor advice... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) wish that the Cap'n were here to offer proper admonishment.

With the correct seals for the engine, properly installed....the push rod tubes do not leak. No sealant or RTV or other such goop is needed or desirable.
[/quote]
The advice I gave was advice I got from FAT Performance and European Motor Works but WTF to they know right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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r_towle
post Oct 1 2016, 04:12 PM
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I know how you feel Elliot but if you use the correct orings you do not need sealant.
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914_teener
post Oct 1 2016, 04:37 PM
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Use the viton seals with the pushrod tubes.


What's not known is what seals were used in Elyut's car and how much was it worth?


That silicone is legendary.
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injunmort
post Oct 1 2016, 04:46 PM
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i used the victor reinz seals that came in the engine gasket kit. three of the four tubes leaked like sieves. a smear of hylomar on the seals and reassembled, no more leaks. hylomar and permatex red anoerobic sealers dont harden. good enough for rolls royce, good enough for me. i have used viton o rings on '60's era triumph push rod seals, they are not magic and leak just like stock. i am unaware of "the right seals" or where to get them. every type 4 engine i have taken apart, had significant oil leakage around the pushrod tubes. so far about 3000 miles on mine, no leaks. is there any empirical reasons against using sealant aside from personal preference?
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r_towle
post Oct 1 2016, 04:47 PM
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I am sorry I don't remember the details, but it won't matter.
Buy both types of seals. The green ones fit perfectly on one end only.
The black ones fit perfectly on the other end only.
The remaining ones I toss in the trash so I won't use them ever.
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Elliot Cannon
post Oct 1 2016, 05:45 PM
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I'm sure FAT Performance used the correct seals. This wasn't my idea gentlemen. This was recommended to me. You're right, I'm wrong, can we move on now?
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mark04usa
post Oct 1 2016, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Oct 1 2016, 05:47 PM) *

Buy both types of seals. The green ones fit perfectly on one end only.
The black ones fit perfectly on the other end only.
The remaining ones I toss in the trash so I won't use them ever.


Not all 914's use the same seals. Early '70 1.7 uses smaller seals on the inboard or case end of the tube.

Regardless of whohever "FAT Performance" and "European Motor Works" are, (and since I've never heard of them they have no credibility with me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ) the best info on our cars comes from those who designed and built them. No sealant is specified to be used on push rod tube seals by the factory. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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injunmort
post Oct 1 2016, 06:39 PM
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^ and they leaked
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