 Experienced Competetion Drivers..., What did this guy do wrong? |
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| MikeInMunich |
 Aug 31 2017, 02:16 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 19-November 13 From: Munich, Germany Member No.: 16,674 Region Association: None  |
Hey Guys! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)
I can't figure out what happened in this crash, which you may or may not have seen on You Tube. You can easily find it by searching "914 Accident". Here is the URL: https://youtu.be/BHYYlTZIZQ4 I estimate that in the video the guy covers about 125m in 3 seconds (while sliding), which is 2500 per minute...150 km/hr or 91 mph. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) So he's going into a curve which isn't sharp at just under 100 MPH with nearly optimum tires and suspension, and he loses it. I can't speak from experience at all here. I've never been in a curve at that speed, athough I can say that my car, with 195-50 Goodrich G-Force Sport Comps (HIGHLY recommend, by the way, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)) front AND rear sway bars and Bilstine performance struts, can easily handle much sharper turns (exit ramps) at about 60 MPH with no problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) I'm interested in hearing opinions of what happened here and why he seems to have not counter steered at all to regain control. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Looking forward to your comments, opinions and insights! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Thanks! By the way, anybody heading over to Munich for the Oktoberfest? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) M.i.M. |
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| Racer |
Aug 31 2017, 02:19 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Northern Virginia Member No.: 1,073 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
More about this here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=213555
If you look at the very beginning, the driver was already in trouble, fighting grip and coming (too close?) to the inside of the corner. No idea of actual speed or what the course looked like preceding where the video picks up. |
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| boxsterfan |
Aug 31 2017, 02:25 PM
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#3
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
Just a few panels from Restoration Design and that car will race again!!
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| drifter914 |
Aug 31 2017, 02:33 PM
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#4
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drifter914 Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 12-May 13 From: pearce, arizona 85625 Member No.: 15,863 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Keep your eye on the guy in blue checkered shirt (w/camera) on the corner. When the 914 comes into sight the shirt is right on the edge of track, which is the very line the driver has for his corner. Shirt does not flinch or move back as he is focused on his lens. Driver has to make an unintended reflex move to avoid clipping the shirt, which sets him up for the subsequent lose of control. Maybe... or maybe not ! Looks likely though... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
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| MikeInMunich |
Aug 31 2017, 02:36 PM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 19-November 13 From: Munich, Germany Member No.: 16,674 Region Association: None |
As Racer has pointed out and many of you already know, this topic has been discussed at the link he provided, above.
Looking at the video again I also believe that it's very likely that the accident was primarily caused by his apparent attempt to steer away from the guy in the blue shirt taking pictures at the edge of the road. Once he made that steer away at that speed he was in trouble, agreed? So what would he have needed to do to regain control after his (faulty?) counter steer to the original "mistake"? |
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| Keith914 |
Aug 31 2017, 02:39 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: 29-April 16 From: Laguna Beach, California 92651 Member No.: 19,948 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(drifter914 @ Aug 31 2017, 01:33 PM)  Keep your eye on the guy in blue checkered shirt (w/camera) on the corner. When the 914 comes into sight the shirt is right on the edge of track, which is the very line the driver has for his corner. Shirt does not flinch or move back as he is focused on his lens. Driver has to make an unintended reflex move to avoid clipping the shirt, which sets him up for the subsequent lose of control. Maybe... or maybe not ! Looks likely though... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Agree with drifter9014 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) |
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| wndsnd |
Aug 31 2017, 02:56 PM
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#7
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You wanted a horse, but got a goat. Nobody wants a goat.... Group: Members Posts: 2,861 Joined: 12-February 12 From: North Shore, MA Member No.: 14,124 Region Association: North East States  |
Texting? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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| boxsterfan |
Aug 31 2017, 03:31 PM
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#8
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
Looks like he was out of control before he even got to the guy with the shirt. It all happens in the first 0:01 of the video. If he doesn't make the adjustment, at a minimum his front right tire goes off the pavement prior to the camera/pic guy in blue shirt. Therefore, I would conclude that the guy taking the pic (although risking his life IMHO) had nothing to do with it.
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| ConeDodger |
Aug 31 2017, 03:56 PM
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#9
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,624 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California 
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Fractional error. He was at 11/10's and had only 10/10's talent. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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| Cracker |
Aug 31 2017, 04:22 PM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,148 Joined: 2-February 10 From: Atlanta (area) Member No.: 11,316 Region Association: South East States
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The photog is a convenient scapegoat but in reality he screwed himself regardless. That car should NOT have been allowed to race with that shit-box cage. Luckily for him, he crashed very early in the run...
PS: I did not see the link but I believe it is the fool who kicked the teener. If so, he is an idiot driving above his limits as Rob stated. BTW: He lifted and paid the price... T |
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| steuspeed |
Aug 31 2017, 04:35 PM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,008 Joined: 12-July 11 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 13,308 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Agree with Boxterfan. Without correction he was going in the ditch. Unfortunately that led to hitting the rock. Damn lucky to walk away from that.
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| Racer |
Aug 31 2017, 05:06 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Northern Virginia Member No.: 1,073 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
From the video perspective, he was already in trouble.. a little "early" to apex? While I can't hear the audio (If any?) he no doubt both swerved a little left and lifted off the gas to avoid the camera man that suddenly appeared in his line of sight, which upset the cars balance and the previous "drift" he was no doubt in when a line correction was needed. Its all about balance and managing the weight of the car on those 4 little contact patches.
It was likely compounded by the fact that while turning, the pavement appears to come "down hill" towards the guy with the camera. So, we already have a weight transition in the car from back to front, loading the front of the car which then magnifies the steering correction due to the sudden increased grip. |
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| Jetsetsurfshop |
Aug 31 2017, 05:29 PM
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#13
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 814 Joined: 7-April 11 From: Marco Island Florida Member No.: 12,907 Region Association: South East States |
I think the dude with the camera sold his line.
He may still have run out of track on to the left, but I doubt it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) |
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| MikeInMunich |
Aug 31 2017, 05:43 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 19-November 13 From: Munich, Germany Member No.: 16,674 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Cracker @ Aug 31 2017, 02:22 PM) The photog is a convenient scapegoat but in reality he screwed himself regardless. That car should NOT have been allowed to race with that shit-box cage. Luckily for him, he crashed very early in the run... PS: I did not see the link but I believe it is the fool who kicked the teener. If so, he is an idiot driving above his limits as Rob stated. BTW: He lifted and paid the price... T I don't see how it's evident that the cage was significantly inferior. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| raynekat |
Aug 31 2017, 05:43 PM
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#15
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 30-December 14 From: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Member No.: 18,263 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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I agree with all those that said he had already lost control before getting to the guy with the camera and was 11/10's.
He just didn't get the opposite steering going quick enough. He had plenty of room to the outside of the turn as he only drifted/skidded to the middle lane markers. If you've ever seen that Fascination video of the yellow Ruf on the Nurburgring, you'll see that in the right hands this type of slide is easily controlled/corrected for. All it takes is experience. A lot of the Pikes Peak hillclimb drivers are not so high on experience. |
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| burton73 |
Aug 31 2017, 07:36 PM
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#16
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burton73 Group: Members Posts: 3,559 Joined: 2-January 07 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 7,414 Region Association: Southern California
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That was a few years ago. Look that boy is lucky to be alive. The right door and right front absorb the impact and the bad cage may of saved him.
Those big boulders where in the wrong spot for him on that day. Bob B (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) |
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| Elliot Cannon |
Aug 31 2017, 07:45 PM
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#17
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914 Guru Group: Retired Members Posts: 8,487 Joined: 29-December 06 From: Paso Robles Ca. (Central coast) Member No.: 7,407 Region Association: None
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I'm not expert like many others here. The only thing I can say about this crash is this video has been on the here in the past. I also know that the spectators were idiots for walking on to the track.
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| Cracker |
Aug 31 2017, 08:32 PM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,148 Joined: 2-February 10 From: Atlanta (area) Member No.: 11,316 Region Association: South East States
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Where do I start? Look at the basic observations...
By comparison sake - I have also attached a picture of a Boxster Spec racer at this Springs PCA Club Race at Road Atlanta. This car is stupid slow and yet super safe (and not potentially flying off cliffs into bolders!) - see the deficiencies now? Tony QUOTE(MikeInMunich @ Aug 31 2017, 07:43 PM) I don't see how it's evident that the cage was significantly inferior. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Under-Kill  Over-Kill  |
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| Cracker |
Aug 31 2017, 08:38 PM
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#19
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,148 Joined: 2-February 10 From: Atlanta (area) Member No.: 11,316 Region Association: South East States
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| EdwardBlume |
Aug 31 2017, 09:24 PM
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#20
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California
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QUOTE(drifter914 @ Aug 31 2017, 01:33 PM) Keep your eye on the guy in blue checkered shirt (w/camera) on the corner. When the 914 comes into sight the shirt is right on the edge of track, which is the very line the driver has for his corner. Shirt does not flinch or move back as he is focused on his lens. Driver has to make an unintended reflex move to avoid clipping the shirt, which sets him up for the subsequent lose of control. Maybe... or maybe not ! Looks likely though... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I saw it that way too. He's on the knife edge and when he lines up visually on the dude he lets out and loses it. Who is to say that if he doesn't come off his line if he clips the guy or not, but either way, its an interesting video. Does anyone know this guy to ask? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) |
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