!973 2.0 questions - Paint and configuration, Need some information please Options

[Downerman]

So I picked this up in Van Nuys and it's down to just the shell. Doors, hoods, well everything off the car. Rust cut out and repaired and next week the dustless blaster get's here and then I epoxy primer the car.

Now, that being said, the original color is L-80E which is Ivory White. I have read ALL of the threads and no one actually has the new paint formula to share here in the forums. My paint supplier told me to bring in some paint off the car. that's impossible as it sits 3' off the ground and ready to strip. I've been told to buy a quality paint (learned that lesson with my last car) and was told to get Matrix because PPG does not make a two stage that matches that L-80E number. Is there anyone who has sprayed a newer paint that feels the shade matches the original Ivory White? If so can you recommend the brand and formula?

Second thing is my car has the black undercoat along the underside but behind the rockers is white. I assume that the car was originally completely painted white as I see it under the black coating. I was planning on hitting some spots with some clear POR15, let dry of course, then entire car with PPG DP50LF with 401 Catalyst, then sealing all the seams with Wurth Seam Sealer GR1019. Then hit the underside with Raptor bed liner (Black) as many here have good things to say about it.
Any flaws or experience here from you guys that can share your experiences?

So my 73 is after the serial number denoting the black sills meaning I should have the black and mine are aluminum. I got two window/trim sets with the deal. One is polished Aluminum and the other is polished aluminum that has been either painted black or anodized black??? Is the black one correct? I can't imagine they would just paint those sills as they take some serious abuse but what did they use? The glove box lock was also painted black and that seems weird to me. I soaked it in brake fluid and it's of course chrome and looking good but was it black as well? It has the original center console with the correct gauges and I recently purchased a correct 150 silver dot speedo for the car. Are there any other 73 2.0 secrets that I might be missing?

On a side note, I called Porsche in Atlanta and they took my vin and engine/trans numbers and the car is numbers matching. The engine and trans are out of the car and appear to be complete. No compression out of #3 (Figures right?). If memory serves me, do the valves sometimes get stuck? This engine has sat for years and years. I guess it really doesn't matter because I'm planning on new rings and some head work (minimum). It will go to the machine shop for some thorough measurements.

Oh yeah, can you get a repo door sticker that has the vin in dot matrix form? Mine is ok but I'm not sure how to protect it from the blaster other than have him not get near it.

Thanks for reading.

[914xr75]

Rust-Oleum Canvas White is an exact match to light ivory. You can do a spray out on a piece of metal and have the paint shop color match it . I have an original headlight door that I compared to this color.

[Larmo63]

Light Ivory is a great color on a 914 IMHO. A 1973 914 2.0 is a good starting point for a build as you may well know.

Yes, the stickers are available, SoCalAndy was making them, but there may be others doing them now.

The window trim should be shiny, not black. And......

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[sithot]

Best chance for a match is spectral analysis of original paint. Two stage does present some challenges.
With my 356 the painter and I went to a lot of effort to match the original color. We obtained a spray card from John Willhoit. Ended up using areas of the car like the glove box door to get a reading. Spray outs and some tweaks and he nailed it.
I have an Ivory ‘67 911 (6604). No trouble other than the usual “let’s try it again” with spray outs.

https://goo.gl/images/NmO4s6

Carbone makes VIN decals
http://car-bone.pl/?s=Vin+decal&post_type=product

[914GT]

I have about 1/2 gal of R-M Limko base mixed in L80E. If you’re interested in the mix formula off the can let me know. I used this to paint a 1973 914 in light ivory in 2013. I also have lots of photos of the car if you want to see the color.

Guy

[chrisg]

This little guy is an exact match to my original paint trunks. You can probably find one of these someplace.

[Tom_T]

Downerman -

See my blue notes in your message quote below, then the links for PPG & Glasurit mix codes for L80E "Light Ivory" (ignore all other names for the color that paint mfgrs use).

So I picked this up in Van Nuys and it's down to just the shell. Doors, hoods, well everything off the car. Rust cut out and repaired and next week the dustless blaster get's here and then I epoxy primer the car.

Now, that being said, the original color is L-80E which is Ivory White. I have read ALL of the threads and no one actually has the new paint formula to share here in the forums. My paint supplier told me to bring in some paint off the car. that's impossible as it sits 3' off the ground and ready to strip. I've been told to buy a quality paint (learned that lesson with my last car) and was told to get Matrix because PPG does not make a two stage that matches that L-80E number. Is there anyone who has sprayed a newer paint that feels the shade matches the original Ivory White? If so can you recommend the brand and formula?

Stick with Dupont, PPG, Glasurit or Sikkends paints, as they're the best out there (I don't know Matrix nor their quality). You don't need a 2-stage paint for a non-metallic paint like L80E, but I would think that any compatible clear coat could be top coated over the single stage L80E if you want the added protection. Being a small quantity for the 914, you may be able to get the old school solvent based L80E to shoot your 914 (I've been told that paint shops can have a CARB exception for small quantities on classic cars).

Make sure that it really was an original L80E, & I assume that you've taken the L80E off of the Karmann Plate on the driver's side front door jamb, but spend the money to get a COA from PCNA since it's a numbers matching 2.0 - if you didn't order when you called them (mention the COA ad in Panamera magazine & you'll get $10 or $20 off).

If you're going to use the new water based 2-stage paint, then find a removeable part like the headlight or engine lids with the original L80E showing, & take that to the paint supplier to use the underside of it (not exposed to sunlight area) to have them "shoot" it for a color match. I wouldn't trust that Rustoleum for anything but a close-ish match on a basic driver resto, & you're going to a lot of work & trying to do yours right

Second thing is my car has the black undercoat along the underside but behind the rockers is white. I assume that the car was originally completely painted white as I see it under the black coating. I was planning on hitting some spots with some clear POR15, let dry of course, then entire car with PPG DP50LF with 401 Catalyst, then sealing all the seams with Wurth Seam Sealer GR1019. Then hit the underside with Raptor bed liner (Black) as many here have good things to say about it.
Any flaws or experience here from you guys that can share your experiences?

The black was one of the dealer applied undercoatings on the belly & wheelwells, with the body color over a chip gaurd from the factory, so you can recreate the finish with Wurth Underbody Schutz (look for the threads in the Originality & History Forum on that). You can recreate the black top-coated undercoating with various materials, or leave it off - if you'll drive it a lot, the extra protection won't hurt, but if you're looking for a top dollar originality resto, then I'd say leave the black off.

So my 73 is after the serial number denoting the black sills meaning I should have the black and mine are aluminum. I got two window/trim sets with the deal. One is polished Aluminum and the other is polished aluminum that has been either painted black or anodized black??? Is the black one correct? I can't imagine they would just paint those sills as they take some serious abuse but what did they use? The glove box lock was also painted black and that seems weird to me. I soaked it in brake fluid and it's of course chrome and looking good but was it black as well? It has the original center console with the correct gauges and I recently purchased a correct 150 silver dot speedo for the car. Are there any other 73 2.0 secrets that I might be missing?

Unfortunately things at the factory in the 70's was nowhere near accurate enough to denote anything about colors & parts, since they used up the prior year parts in the bins on early MY cars. My guess is that you had a DAPO who decided that they liked everything blacked out. The 1973 should have polished aluminum or chrome at the windshield, windows, sails & targa; & if an Appearance Group - chrome bumpers F & R & chromed fog light grills up front; & all 73s had the aluminum door sills/carpet strips set with white plastic rivets (black plastic started in 74>).

On a side note, I called Porsche in Atlanta and they took my vin and engine/trans numbers and the car is numbers matching. The engine and trans are out of the car and appear to be complete. No compression out of #3 (Figures right?). If memory serves me, do the valves sometimes get stuck? This engine has sat for years and years. I guess it really doesn't matter because I'm planning on new rings and some head work (minimum). It will go to the machine shop for some thorough measurements.

It sounds like you'll need a head job, but I'd recco that you do a thorough engine & transaxle rehab/rebuild as needed now, while everything is out of the car, & fix/replace anything which is iffy. Assuming that you're sticking with the D-jet EFI, make sure to match all parts to the correct 73 MY, cuz they changed many components in 74-76. I'd also suggest a thorough cleaning of the cases, tins & other components on the exterior - not just so it looks good cosmetically, but also so you can trace any leaks or whatever else pops up post-rebuild.

Oh yeah, can you get a repo door sticker that has the vin in dot matrix form? Mine is ok but I'm not sure how to protect it from the blaster other than have him not get near it.

As Larmo/Lawrence mentioned above, SoCalAndy on here does them, so take some pix of your VIN sticker & shoot him a PM or email with the pix to order. IIRC he has a topic on here for ordering them.

Thanks for reading.

For the old school PPG & Glasurit paint cards with the mixes, you have to jump around MYs to get the L80E & have to use the VW version - since they don't seem to list any Porsche ones online that I've found so far for my own 73 L80E. The 914s were all made & painted at the VW Karmann plant anyway, & initially the 914-6's used the Porsche 1110 Porsche paint code (for "Light Ivory with Black" for the Targa top in black), while the 914/4's used the VW paint code of L80E for "Light Ivory" (the official "Ivory" for VW & Porsche is a darker & more yellow-pinkish color). Eventually they went with the L80E only in the 73 MY IIRC anyway.

Since L80E was exactly the same color & mix for all MYs 1970-76, you can use info from any MY, & there was no difference between VW & Porsche paints/codes.

Here is what I've found in my own L80E paint code research:

> For some reason this website doesn't list L80E in their PPG charts -
http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/aclchip.as...swagen-pg01.jpg

But they do in other 70-76 MYs here -

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1976-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1976-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1975-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1975-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1975-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1970-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1970-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1970-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1971-Vol...9121.1524935589

Print the above out &/or save to your computer for future reference.---^


http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/aclchip.as...swagen-pg01.jpg

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedispl...973&rows=50

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/colou...ch_porsche_1973

http://p914.com/p914_paint_73.htm

http://p914.com/p914_paint_L80E_72.htm

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[bbrock]

... & all 73s had the aluminum door sills/carpet strips set with white plastic rivets (black plastic started in 74>).[/b][/i][/color]

Interesting. My '73 2.0 has black plastic sill plates. It's possible they were replaced by a PO but I have all the receipts for the car from 1976 on so they would have to have been replaced within the first 3 years after manufacture. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Downerman]

Thank you all for the great information. I think I will leave off the undercoating living out here in Monterey area. Also with respect to the black sill plates. The 914 book by Dr. Johnson (and I have no idea how it's perceived in the 914 factual world) say's that in 1973 after serial # 473 291 8919 they were black plastic. Hoping to shed some light on comment below.

Interesting. My '73 2.0 has black plastic sill plates. It's possible they were replaced by a PO but I have all the receipts for the car from 1976 on so they would have to have been replaced within the first 3 years after manufacture. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
[/quote]

[Downerman]

Downerman -

See my blue notes in your message quote below, then the links for PPG & Glasurit mix codes for L80E "Light Ivory" (ignore all other names for the color that paint mfgrs use).

So I picked this up in Van Nuys and it's down to just the shell. Doors, hoods, well everything off the car. Rust cut out and repaired and next week the dustless blaster get's here and then I epoxy primer the car.

Now, that being said, the original color is L-80E which is Ivory White. I have read ALL of the threads and no one actually has the new paint formula to share here in the forums. My paint supplier told me to bring in some paint off the car. that's impossible as it sits 3' off the ground and ready to strip. I've been told to buy a quality paint (learned that lesson with my last car) and was told to get Matrix because PPG does not make a two stage that matches that L-80E number. Is there anyone who has sprayed a newer paint that feels the shade matches the original Ivory White? If so can you recommend the brand and formula?

Stick with Dupont, PPG, Glasurit or Sikkends paints, as they're the best out there (I don't know Matrix nor their quality). You don't need a 2-stage paint for a non-metallic paint like L80E, but I would think that any compatible clear coat could be top coated over the single stage L80E if you want the added protection. Being a small quantity for the 914, you may be able to get the old school solvent based L80E to shoot your 914 (I've been told that paint shops can have a CARB exception for small quantities on classic cars).

Make sure that it really was an original L80E, & I assume that you've taken the L80E off of the Karmann Plate on the driver's side front door jamb, but spend the money to get a COA from PCNA since it's a numbers matching 2.0 - if you didn't order when you called them (mention the COA ad in Panamera magazine & you'll get $10 or $20 off).

If you're going to use the new water based 2-stage paint, then find a removeable part like the headlight or engine lids with the original L80E showing, & take that to the paint supplier to use the underside of it (not exposed to sunlight area) to have them "shoot" it for a color match. I wouldn't trust that Rustoleum for anything but a close-ish match on a basic driver resto, & you're going to a lot of work & trying to do yours right

Second thing is my car has the black undercoat along the underside but behind the rockers is white. I assume that the car was originally completely painted white as I see it under the black coating. I was planning on hitting some spots with some clear POR15, let dry of course, then entire car with PPG DP50LF with 401 Catalyst, then sealing all the seams with Wurth Seam Sealer GR1019. Then hit the underside with Raptor bed liner (Black) as many here have good things to say about it.
Any flaws or experience here from you guys that can share your experiences?

The black was one of the dealer applied undercoatings on the belly & wheelwells, with the body color over a chip gaurd from the factory, so you can recreate the finish with Wurth Underbody Schutz (look for the threads in the Originality & History Forum on that). You can recreate the black top-coated undercoating with various materials, or leave it off - if you'll drive it a lot, the extra protection won't hurt, but if you're looking for a top dollar originality resto, then I'd say leave the black off.

So my 73 is after the serial number denoting the black sills meaning I should have the black and mine are aluminum. I got two window/trim sets with the deal. One is polished Aluminum and the other is polished aluminum that has been either painted black or anodized black??? Is the black one correct? I can't imagine they would just paint those sills as they take some serious abuse but what did they use? The glove box lock was also painted black and that seems weird to me. I soaked it in brake fluid and it's of course chrome and looking good but was it black as well? It has the original center console with the correct gauges and I recently purchased a correct 150 silver dot speedo for the car. Are there any other 73 2.0 secrets that I might be missing?

Unfortunately things at the factory in the 70's was nowhere near accurate enough to denote anything about colors & parts, since they used up the prior year parts in the bins on early MY cars. My guess is that you had a DAPO who decided that they liked everything blacked out. The 1973 should have polished aluminum or chrome at the windshield, windows, sails & targa; & if an Appearance Group - chrome bumpers F & R & chromed fog light grills up front; & all 73s had the aluminum door sills/carpet strips set with white plastic rivets (black plastic started in 74>).

On a side note, I called Porsche in Atlanta and they took my vin and engine/trans numbers and the car is numbers matching. The engine and trans are out of the car and appear to be complete. No compression out of #3 (Figures right?). If memory serves me, do the valves sometimes get stuck? This engine has sat for years and years. I guess it really doesn't matter because I'm planning on new rings and some head work (minimum). It will go to the machine shop for some thorough measurements.

It sounds like you'll need a head job, but I'd recco that you do a thorough engine & transaxle rehab/rebuild as needed now, while everything is out of the car, & fix/replace anything which is iffy. Assuming that you're sticking with the D-jet EFI, make sure to match all parts to the correct 73 MY, cuz they changed many components in 74-76. I'd also suggest a thorough cleaning of the cases, tins & other components on the exterior - not just so it looks good cosmetically, but also so you can trace any leaks or whatever else pops up post-rebuild.

Oh yeah, can you get a repo door sticker that has the vin in dot matrix form? Mine is ok but I'm not sure how to protect it from the blaster other than have him not get near it.

As Larmo/Lawrence mentioned above, SoCalAndy on here does them, so take some pix of your VIN sticker & shoot him a PM or email with the pix to order. IIRC he has a topic on here for ordering them.

Thanks for reading.

For the old school PPG & Glasurit paint cards with the mixes, you have to jump around MYs to get the L80E & have to use the VW version - since they don't seem to list any Porsche ones online that I've found so far for my own 73 L80E. The 914s were all made & painted at the VW Karmann plant anyway, & initially the 914-6's used the Porsche 1110 Porsche paint code (for "Light Ivory with Black" for the Targa top in black), while the 914/4's used the VW paint code of L80E for "Light Ivory" (the official "Ivory" for VW & Porsche is a darker & more yellow-pinkish color). Eventually they went with the L80E only in the 73 MY IIRC anyway.

Since L80E was exactly the same color & mix for all MYs 1970-76, you can use info from any MY, & there was no difference between VW & Porsche paints/codes.

Here is what I've found in my own L80E paint code research:

> For some reason this website doesn't list L80E in their PPG charts -
http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/aclchip.as...swagen-pg01.jpg

But they do in other 70-76 MYs here -

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1976-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1976-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1975-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1975-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1975-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1970-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1970-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1970-Vol...9121.1524935589

http://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1971-Vol...9121.1524935589

Print the above out &/or save to your computer for future reference.---^


http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/aclchip.as...swagen-pg01.jpg

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedispl...973&rows=50

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/colou...ch_porsche_1973

http://p914.com/p914_paint_73.htm

http://p914.com/p914_paint_L80E_72.htm

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

Thank you Tom. Let me digest this. With respect to paint. I have had bad luck with single stage working in my garage and good luck in the way past with two stage so I'm going to go with the two. Not sure which are which in all of your links but I will dive into it tonight.

[David Billo]

...The 914 book by Dr. Johnson ... say's that in 1973 after serial # 473 291 8919 they were black plastic.

My 4732924778 has black plastic.

[bbrock]

Thank you all for the great information. I think I will leave off the undercoating living out here in Monterey area. Also with respect to the black sill plates. The 914 book by Dr. Johnson (and I have no idea how it's perceived in the 914 factual world) say's that in 1973 after serial # 473 291 8919 they were black plastic. Hoping to shed some light on comment below.

That works. I'm 473 291 8937. I have the 1st edition of that book but never noticed the VIN cutoff, will look again. Thanks!

[Tom_T]

I'll check with some other 914 experts to see about the door sills to be sure.

If they did start the change before the 74's, then it's another example of a floating equipment changeover starting outside of the model years, albeit in this case with the earlier MY using parts from the bin intended for the next MY.

My 73 had the late front 2 bleeder calipers, while the rears are the early single bleeder flavor, & I had the 70-72 chrome window cranks originally - & being the 2nd owner since 1975, I know that's the way they came from the factory - but that was an example of finishing out parts from the earlier MY - rather than early use of later MY parts.

I'll correct my info if I find out different info.

Dr. B has been caught on some incorrect info in his 914 book, but he's actually a super 356 expert on those with that crowd. Since the factory was not always diligent on records & dates, etc., it's not uncommon to have a few mistakes. However, he may be right & I may be wrong in this case. I'll check.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Larmo63]

IMHO:

Aluminum sills look better and more vintage/German/Porsche to me.

I'd use aluminum.

[Tom_T]

Also with respect to the black sill plates. The 914 book by Dr. Johnson (and I have no idea how it's perceived in the 914 factual world) say's that in 1973 after serial # 473 291 8919 they were black plastic. Hoping to shed some light on comment below.

That works. I'm 473 291 8937. I have the 1st edition of that book but never noticed the VIN cutoff, will look again. Thanks!

Okay, so I stand corrected (or sit) - according to another 914 guy whom I know:
"in june of 73 the strips and thresholds were switched to black plastic from bright aluminum"

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual VINs were all over the place, since they didn't always track with mfgr. & VIN sticker dates. So don't be surprised that some VINs prior to Dr. B's number above have black plastic sills/strips if the VIN sticker date was in June, nor if some later VINs were dated prior to June & have aluminum.

For example, I know of another early 73 2L which has an earlier VIN number than mine but the date is September 72, whereas mine is in August 72.

For Downerman & others, you could translate your Chassis Number to the build date (see below), & if it comes out to be May 73, then your's may have had aluminum originally.


^ Note that all MYs are WWD95XX 1970-76 AFAIK; & that 95 is the Karmann plant denoter, & if they added +1 to 96, that is to denote a 100's car made that day, +2 97 is 200s, etc. Also, you count it as week #1 even if only Jan. 1 is in the first week. Use a googled calendar for 1973 (or another year of mfgr if your VIN date is different - for others decoding).

Otherwise, the only way you'll know for sure which you had, is to be the OO, or know them or be able to trace what was on there originally via PO's, since a lot can be changed over 45+/- years.

Or as Lawrence/Larmo said above, you can go with aluminum if you like them better. Mark at 914Rubber makes an excellent repro set of them. The aluminum won't crack, like the plastic ones sometimes do - so aluminum are more durable.

If you're trying to do an anally perfect CW originality 914, then stick with the black sills/strips, & do single stage paint.

If you stick with black, then use black plastic rivets if you can find them, or else use the clear ones which Porsche still sells.

Also Downerman - I think that all of those paint charts are all for the single stage paint mix, but I would think that the colors/shades of paint & proportions to be used would be the same if used on a 2 stage paint, since the 2nd stage is clear coat.

And also make sure to stick with like kind clear coat - i.e.: both PPG, or Dupont, etc. - so the chemistry doesn't interact funny. My paint guy tried to use a better clear over the Dove Blue metallic on our 88 VW Westfalia, & it caused the paint to turn more grey, but he redid it for us to the original, & stuck with the same PPG color & clear.

You might want to delve into some techniques at the Eastwood website to see if you can resolve whatever was your issue(s) in shooting single stage before.

Since I'm the "King of Runs" with a rattle can, let alone a real gun - I won't even attempt to paint my cars! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[914_7T3]

...The 914 book by Dr. Johnson ... say's that in 1973 after serial # 473 291 8919 they were black plastic.

My 4732924778 has black plastic.

My late '73 VIN #4732921258 also has black plastic.

[Tom_T]

...The 914 book by Dr. Johnson ... say's that in 1973 after serial # 473 291 8919 they were black plastic.

My 4732924778 has black plastic.

My late '73 VIN #4732921258 also has black plastic.

It might be helpful if you guys with them also listed the VIN sticker date, just to see if they all fall in June 73.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[bbrock]

It might be helpful if you guys with them also listed the VIN sticker date, just to see if they all fall in June 73.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

Well.... This only muddies the water again. Black plastic sills and



Karmann tag translates to 04/09/73 but COA lists 04/05/73 as completion date. Car has late doors with crash bars but silver dot gauges and early window cranks, early brake pressure regulator, but IIRC, a mix of 2-bleeder and 1-bleeder calipers (don't remember which end is which without looking).

[Tom_T]

It might be helpful if you guys with them also listed the VIN sticker date, just to see if they all fall in June 73.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

Well.... This only muddies the water again. Black plastic sills and



Karmann tag translates to 04/09/73 but COA lists 04/05/73 as completion date. Car has late doors with crash bars but silver dot gauges and early window cranks, early brake pressure regulator, but IIRC, a mix of 2-bleeder and 1-bleeder calipers (don't remember which end is which without looking).

And this surprises you about our 914s Brent!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

914s & the VW/Porsche/Karmann records are a bit loosey-goosey, & rarely will you see a COA with the Transaxle number listed, which I assume means that the source Kardex lacked it too (unless the COA person was in a hurry that day).

It's also VERY common to have the COA staff misread or mis-translate the option codes, & use a newer non-914 code result - like Pat Garvey's "Swedish Equipment" on his 72 914/4, & he swears to his wife that it did NOT come with a Buxom Blonde in the right seat when he picked it up at the dealer in 1972! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Brent - your Chassis no. 1519564 should be 15th week - 1st Day (only counting M-F, for Monday April 9th 1973) - 95 (Karmann) - 64th car built that day. So maybe either the COA person had their glasses off or was in a hurry & wrote 4/5, or maybe the guy at the Karmann plant who stamped the Karmann plates had mentally lost a few days from heavy stein tipping over the weekend before 4/9/72.

You could send the Chassis no. translation to them by email, & ask them to recheck the Kardex & correct your COA appropriately.

Unfortunately COAs are as loose on facts in many cases, as are the records - even when they have the correct information available. My COA took 3 redo's to get the interior color decoded correctly (#11 is Black with Basketweaver seat inserts, mine is #31 is Beige, but they insisted it was Black until I emailed them a document from Jeff Bowlsby's site with the codes, but they still refused to change it), & their COA manager refused to correct it until I called the PCNA Customer Care GM to get it done, & it shows "Information Not Available" for both completion date & Transmission (Transaxle) Number. They also insisted that my early 73 wasn't sold until Sept. 74 & then that it was sold new in CT - NOT California, until & emailed a pic of my CA reg card which shows 1st sold 11/9/72 in CA!

So PCNA's records leave a lot to be desired, as does their staff qualifications & customer service on a very expensive COA service where they will not give you a copy of the Kardex source document, whereas PAG in Europe will do so. To the contrary, my VW COA cost $76 IIRC, & was right the 1st time - despite there having been 10x as many Vanagons built, than 914s + 911s of that era.

FYI - I have heard that PCNA brings their computers to some of the bigger national PCA events etc., where they'll look up the digital copy of the microfilm/microfische actual Kardex. So you could get to them at Monterey or another Parade up near you in MT, etc. to have them look yours up, & have your phone/camera at the ready to snap a screen shot to print out for your car records. Otherwise, send them pix by email & ask them to correct.

Very interesting on the mix of other early & late parts, but you should check on them with the OO & PO('s) - if you're not the OO.

Mine has the mix of F late 2 bleeder & R early 1 bleeder calipers, but mine was built on 8/31/72 with 8/72 on the VIN sticker - a super fast 1 day build! ;-D

In reality the parts could've been mixed over an extended period, Porsche did Recall BO for the wheels not being the correct p/n ending -01 for the new front hub-centric hubs (self-centering hubs with the lip around the center hole), which ran through the Dec 72 production of 73 MYs. So it's possible.

I've not seen any late 73's without the silver dot gauges, but that could start a whole new discussion if somebody who is an OO who has the all black gauges now!

Early bar-less doors were only on early 73's made in up to September-ish or October-ish 1972, but then the replacement doors sold as parts were apparently mostly or all without the extra side crash protection bars - at least for some time. So I've seen some late 73-76 with the lighter late doors due to accident of shopping cart damage replacements.

Unless you know for sure that the mix of parts was on there from day 1 - your early chrome shank window cranks could be later replacements, as could be the black sills/strips, & so could the calipers - if a PO did an an exchange on rebuilts or new & they got the early single bleeder type. If you are sure that all or some of that mix was on yours from the factory, then please do post an info topic over in the O&H Forum, so that others are aware of the extent of the mix of parts throughout 73 MY.

My early 73 had early chrome shank cranks, but when one broke later in my ownership 77-ish, they only had the late black shank type at the dealer, so I replaced both to black, but have gotten an NOS set of early chromes for my current resto. So without my ownership of my car as #2 owner since Dec. 1975 (I'd seen the car since Nov. 72) - a later owner would think that it had black window cranks from the start. Similarly for the mix of early/late calipers, "light weight" early-late doors without the bars but with the later window mechanisms.

So happy to muddy the waters even more, but don't shoot the messenger!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[bbrock]

If you are sure that all or some of that mix was on yours from the factory, then please do post an info topic over in the O&H Forum, so that others are aware of the extent of the mix of parts throughout 73 MY.

Nice and thorough Tom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) I'm not at all surprised the date on the COA doesn't match and wasn't terribly concerned since the dates are close; unless there is a reason I should be. On the transaxle, I have an email from Sara in my COA file that confirms the number was not recorded on the Kardex. I wanted that confirmed since "Not Confirmed" is not the same as "Does Not Match." At least nobody can claim my transaxle is not original. My COA has the color codes correct except they list the Porsche codes rather than VW codes. I thought that was interesting.

So... to the mismatched parts. The OO sold the car in 1976 to the PO that I bought the car from. The only thing I have from the OO is the warranty voucher and service record. Since the car was only 3 years old when it changed hands, I'm doubtful that many parts were swapped out before that time. I received from the PO, a stack of receipts that seems to be very thorough and include every battery, shock replacement, brake job, tune-up and even the replacement owner's manual and key she bought. So I have operated under the assumption that most, if not all replacement parts were recorded in those receipts. I can't rule out part swapping 100% but can reasonably assume low probability on most. That said, I've been jogging my memory and:

Sill plates - It seems unlikely these were ever swapped out. It's not something you expect to replace in the first three years. My VIN is just a few chassis beyond the switch over VIN listed by Johnson (I just looked, and that was in the 1st edition) but before the June date. I'm inclined the think that date may need to be backed up a bit but can't prove it for the above reasons.

Window Cranks - After thinking about this, there is a high chance these were swapped; and most likely by me. I had 3, 914s and a pile of extra cranks since those Volkswagen cranks were everywhere back in the day. This was 30+ years ago and I've gotten a lot stupider since then. If I swapped cranks, it would have been more likely I put the later crank in the 2 liter since I've never been a huge fan of chrome BUT, I know that I snapped more than one crank knob off and there is a good chance I did that with the original black cranks and just swapped in whatever was handy. So let's scratch that one off the list.

Brake calipers - This just got really weird. I was going on memory so just went down to look. I have ONE single bleeder rear caliper and the rest are dual bleeder. That seems really fishy. I don't remember ever swapping a caliper, but jeezus, it was 30 years ago and originality wasn't a concern to me then, being able to get to work was, so... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) . Maybe my car got the last single bleeder at the factory, or maybe my memory just sucks. I for sure have the early style pressure regulator though and definitely never touched that.

I fear I've hijacked this thread too much already, but at what point would you say the 73 MY switches from early to late. I actually celebrate the fact that mine seems to be a bit of a mutt.