 TGIHC, Thank God I Have Carbs |
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| Ansbacher |
 Jun 13 2019, 04:30 PM
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#1
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Senior Member  Group: Members Posts: 689 Joined: 4-July 14 From: Tampa Bay, Florida Member No.: 17,589  |
Wow, with all the D-Jet issues being posted lately and owners pulling their hair out trying to identify the problems to repair, I am very thankful to have two simple and reliable Dellorto carbs on my car. Yes, I would love the smoother experience of F.I. but wondering if it is really worth the aggravation.
Ansbacher |
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| JmuRiz |
Jun 13 2019, 04:40 PM
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#2
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,623 Joined: 30-December 02 From: NoVA Member No.: 50 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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I think it’s time for someone to figure out a 914-owner-price-point EFI setup with ITBs
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) One that can also be used on 356s (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Jun 13 2019, 05:26 PM
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#3
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,469 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Apples and Oranges
Those D-Jet parts are 40+ years old. A lot of those problems can be traced back to old and brittle wiring. I had the same amount of trouble (if not more) with my dual 40 webers on the 2056 than i had with the D-Jet on the 1.7L. And i would never ever trade the FI on my 3.6L for carbs. There simply is no comparison. Like i said, Apples and Oranges (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
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| BeatNavy |
Jun 13 2019, 05:35 PM
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#4
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Certified Professional Scapegoat Group: Members Posts: 2,962 Joined: 26-February 14 From: Easton, MD Member No.: 17,042 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jun 13 2019, 07:26 PM)  Those D-Jet parts are 40+ years old. A lot of those problems can be traced back to old and brittle wiring. I agree. Anything (or anyone) over 40 that has been ignored is going to need significant maintenance (and perhaps cosmetic surgery). I replaced / rebuilt just about every D-Jet component including putting in one of Jeff Bowlsby's wiring harnesses. Runs like a champ now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) |
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| Amphicar770 |
Jun 13 2019, 06:32 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,229 Joined: 20-April 10 From: PA, USA Member No.: 11,639 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Kind of like saying you are glad to have bias ply tires because a few folks are having issues with their 40 year old radials.
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| 914_teener |
Jun 13 2019, 07:22 PM
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#6
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,270 Joined: 31-August 08 From: So. Cal Member No.: 9,489 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Amphicar770 @ Jun 13 2019, 05:32 PM) Kind of like saying you are glad to have bias ply tires because a few folks are having issues with their 40 year old radials. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Wait until until you have E15 in those carbs and the bias ply tires. |
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| Ansbacher |
Jun 13 2019, 08:11 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 689 Joined: 4-July 14 From: Tampa Bay, Florida Member No.: 17,589 |
No shortage of non-ethanol gas here in Florida. My carbs stay pristine and happy.
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| SirAndy |
Jun 13 2019, 08:18 PM
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#8
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,469 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Why am i not surprised you are in Florida? No elevation changes to speak of.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) What was that annoying commercial about the "set it and forget it"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) |
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| 80’s old school |
Jun 13 2019, 09:03 PM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 26-March 19 From: California Member No.: 22,994 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Jun 13 2019, 03:40 PM) I think it’s time for someone to figure out a 914-owner-price-point EFI setup with ITBs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) One that can also be used on 356s (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Here ya go... not sure what you mean by “914”owner price point. $3500... http://thedubshop.com/dual-throttle-body-f...gnition-type-4/ |
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| MarkV |
Jun 14 2019, 12:39 AM
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#10
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Fear the Jack Stands Group: Members Posts: 1,493 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Sunny Tucson, AZ Member No.: 154 Region Association: None |
D-jet was probably one of the first mainstream "electronic" fuel injection systems ever used. Seems like the 40 year old wiring would be easy enough to fix with a new injection harness. It cant be comparable to a modern fuel injection system. The MPS is pretty rudimentary compared to anything modern. Point triggered injectors ... cars don't even have distributors anymore. If all the parts are fresh it can work perfect but it doesn't take much to cause a difficult to diagnose problem. It takes some patience and dedication to keep it sorted and running.
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| Beeliner |
Jun 14 2019, 04:56 AM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 2-August 14 From: Fairfield, CT Member No.: 17,725 Region Association: North East States
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QUOTE(MarkV @ Jun 13 2019, 10:39 PM) D-jet was probably one of the first mainstream "electronic" fuel injection systems ever used. Seems like the 40 year old wiring would be easy enough to fix with a new injection harness. It cant be comparable to a modern fuel injection system. The MPS is pretty rudimentary compared to anything modern. Point triggered injectors ... cars don't even have distributors anymore. If all the parts are fresh it can work perfect but it doesn't take much to cause a difficult to diagnose problem. It takes some patience and dedication to keep it sorted and running. My '73 has these..... I worked on the linkage yesterday... My 75 has FI. That's how they came, so that's what they've got.  |
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| falcor75 |
Jun 14 2019, 05:09 AM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,579 Joined: 22-November 12 From: Sweden Member No.: 15,176 Region Association: Scandinavia
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QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Jun 14 2019, 12:40 AM) I think it’s time for someone to figure out a 914-owner-price-point EFI setup with ITBs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) One that can also be used on 356s (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) There already is systems out there. The problems is that most 914 owners are to cheap to take the step and start enjoying their cars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) http://thedubshop.com/dual-throttle-body-f...gnition-type-4/ One problem is that the owner needs to be equally interested and able to troubleshoot and do the mechanical work regardless if the FI system is 40 years old or brand new. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtsmebEX25k&t=37s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9rcczRTG_M |
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| Gatornapper |
Jun 14 2019, 05:29 AM
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#13
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 22-September 17 From: Woods west of Richmond, VA Member No.: 21,449 Region Association: South East States
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I'm totally green/dumb about the D-jet/carb matter, but did purchase a full, working D-jet system off another '76 for a future install if I get the carbs tweaked correctly and know the rest of the engine is solid.
But I can tell you all this: I had a long talk with Eric at PMB Performance when ordering my rear brake calipers and we got into talking about my eventually installing the D-jet system. Most here know that PMB are one of the best at restoring 914's and they know the D-jet system intimately. He said up until recently, their advice was indeed to get a 914 back to the original fuel injection. But no more. Their position has changed. They said it's getting impossible to find good working parts. For what it's worth. GN |
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| mepstein |
Jun 14 2019, 06:27 AM
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#14
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 20,587 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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QUOTE(Gatornapper @ Jun 14 2019, 07:29 AM) I'm totally green/dumb about the D-jet/carb matter, but did purchase a full, working D-jet system off another '76 for a future install if I get the carbs tweaked correctly and know the rest of the engine is solid. But I can tell you all this: I had a long talk with Eric at PMB Performance when ordering my rear brake calipers and we got into talking about my eventually installing the D-jet system. Most here know that PMB are one of the best at restoring 914's and they know the D-jet system intimately. He said up until recently, their advice was indeed to get a 914 back to the original fuel injection. But no more. Their position has changed. They said it's getting impossible to find good working parts. For what it's worth. GN (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) getting good parts is becoming more difficult but... a properly running stock FI is a beautiful thing. Starts on the first try, runs smooth and quiet and gets great gas mileage. I can understand it becomes cost prohibitive for a shop to spend the time and money tracking down old parts when there is a budget involved and no guarantee that the 50 year old parts will work or keep working but for us hobby enthusiasts, it can be worth the time and trouble. Especially with a crew of experts just a World site away. |
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| Gatornapper |
Jun 14 2019, 06:36 AM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 22-September 17 From: Woods west of Richmond, VA Member No.: 21,449 Region Association: South East States
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Mep -
I'm a long way off from this, but as I am experienced with old FI systems (I'm an electrical engineer, and actually find the old ones simple, cut my teeth on '70's Volvo's), if my engine turns out strong (Porsche dealer who installed carbs said one cylinder has low compression), I just may give the D-jet a try, first pre-testing each component as much as possible. I'd also want a complete new harness as that would surely eliminate a large percentage of potential problems. And you can get new/replacement injectors, correct? What does a new harness cost, and where can they be found? TIA GN QUOTE(mepstein @ Jun 14 2019, 06:27 AM) QUOTE(Gatornapper @ Jun 14 2019, 07:29 AM) I'm totally green/dumb about the D-jet/carb matter, but did purchase a full, working D-jet system off another '76 for a future install if I get the carbs tweaked correctly and know the rest of the engine is solid. But I can tell you all this: I had a long talk with Eric at PMB Performance when ordering my rear brake calipers and we got into talking about my eventually installing the D-jet system. Most here know that PMB are one of the best at restoring 914's and they know the D-jet system intimately. He said up until recently, their advice was indeed to get a 914 back to the original fuel injection. But no more. Their position has changed. They said it's getting impossible to find good working parts. For what it's worth. GN (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) getting good parts is becoming more difficult but... a properly running stock FI is a beautiful thing. Starts on the first try, runs smooth and quiet and gets great gas mileage. I can understand it becomes cost prohibitive for a shop to spend the time and money tracking down old parts when there is a budget involved and no guarantee that the 50 year old parts will work or keep working but for us hobby enthusiasts, it can be worth the time and trouble. Especially with a crew of experts just a World site away. |
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| Olympic 914 |
Jun 14 2019, 07:19 AM
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#16
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Group: Members Posts: 1,771 Joined: 7-July 11 From: Pittsburgh PA Member No.: 13,287 Region Association: North East States
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QUOTE(BeatNavy @ Jun 13 2019, 07:35 PM) QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jun 13 2019, 07:26 PM) Those D-Jet parts are 40+ years old. A lot of those problems can be traced back to old and brittle wiring. I agree. Anything (or anyone) over 40 that has been ignored is going to need significant maintenance (and perhaps cosmetic surgery). I replaced / rebuilt just about every D-Jet component including putting in one of Jeff Bowlsby's wiring harnesses. Runs like a champ now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) This...… Also have rebuilt two MPS units (to adjust off the car and easily switch out) messed with the AAR and CHT sensor. repaired the plenum, new hoses everywhere. Everything except a new FI harness. and if it becomes questionable I'll just pony up the bucks and get one. Right now it starts easily, idles smooth, (if a little high) and runs great. Wouldn't have it any other way. Sure the carbs look nicer, the D-jet is crowded with a lot mysterious looking hoses and wiring. but it's stock and it works. I like to show off by standing outside the car, putting the key in, turning it and it starts. no pumping of gas pedal and hoping it catches. just turn the key and it's running. |
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| Mark Henry |
Jun 14 2019, 07:24 AM
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#17
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(Gatornapper @ Jun 14 2019, 08:36 AM) I'd also want a complete new harness as that would surely eliminate a large percentage of potential problems. And you can get new/replacement injectors, correct? What does a new harness cost, and where can they be found? TIA GN http://bowlsby.net/914/WiringHarnesses/ |
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| Spoke |
Jun 14 2019, 07:49 AM
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#18
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 7,370 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None
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My 2056 came with dual carbs and runs well. The simplicity of carbs when running well is nice.
I do have a complete 2L FI setup and this thread has me thinking about swapping to FI. |
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| flipb |
Jun 14 2019, 08:14 AM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,871 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Fairfax, VA Member No.: 10,752 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Minor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hijacked.gif)
When I rebuilt my motor (2056) a few years ago, I put in a mild carb cam (G cam from European Motorworks). If I someday want to install an EFI system, could I do so with that setup? What are the drawbacks? |
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| IronHillRestorations |
Jun 14 2019, 08:25 AM
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#20
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,926 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None
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[quote name='Beeliner' date='Jun 14 2019, 02:56 AM' post='2722480']
[quote name='MarkV' post='2722474' date='Jun 13 2019, 10:39 PM'] My '73 has these..... I worked on the linkage yesterday... [/quote] Get a CSP center bellcrank, it's much better than any cross bar |
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