Do bumblebees sting?, My experience with John Forbes and his "Speed and Custom Shop" Options

[iankarr]

The time has come to tell this story.

As some of you may remember, back in the fall I put out an APB for someone to help me rescue an engine from a shop in North Carolina. I don’t believe in posting unfavorable reviews of businesses publicly until they’ve had a chance to make good...and the full story has unfolded. I could go on with the boring details forever, but I’ll try to keep things as brief as possible. Or you can just skip to the last paragraph.

In May of last year, I saw a craigslist ad for a bumblebee roller in primer. I’d been looking for a car I could build a video series around, and this seemed perfect. It turns out the owner was John Forbes, who has a 914 pedigree.

EDIT: The original version of this post referenced Black Forest Racing - a company John started years ago. His son took over the company in 2017 and John is no longer affiliated - though he didn't go out of his way to point this out. He currently does business as "John's Speed and Custom Shop"

We had a series of really enjoyable conversations and he told me this car was “the most soild and straight 914 he’d ever seen”. He bought it about 10 years ago and kept it to build for himself, but life got in the way. His asking price seemed fair, so I wired the funds and he fedexed the title.

As we talked further about the car, he said he would love to rebuild the engine…and gave me a great price. His motors have won races, so I gladly agreed. I wired half the dough for the build and also sent some new parts to him. He showed me pics of the case split. We also talked about having the car painted (to an OEM level-not concours) in North Carolina, since it would probably be simpler than NY. John said he had a “great guy”…and would love to oversee the painting since he was so attached to the car. He asked for a 50% deposit on the paint and sent me some progress photos. Two weeks later he asked for the balance (which I sent), and texted some more pics…although somewhat few and far away…but he raved over the phone about how great the car looked. At this point he had almost all of the money in this deal…in cash and parts I sent.

Then things changed.

John became harder to reach, and he missed multiple dates to deliver the car (part of the deal was that he would trailer it to my garage). The engine sat, half-built for months. Finally, John promised he’d deliver the car on Sunday, September 8th, but when I called the day before to ask what time he’d arrive, he told me he couldn’t make it. I told him I was flying down to NC and would see him on Monday.

I walked in to the shop and the first thing I saw was my engine, still unfinished and untested. As I turned to see the car, my jaw hit the floor. Paint was bubbling on the deck lid, there were scratches from coarse sanding, and smudges and runs everywhere. I asked John how he could even set a delivery date when the two-month old paint had major issues and the engine wasn’t running. He didn’t really have an answer, but promised he would make things right. Here are just a couple of pics. Of course, I have video (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)




I’m often trusting to a fault…but especially when it comes to the 914 community. I had let my guard down on this bumblebee and I got stung. My choice at this point was to either pull everything out of his shop and lick my wounds…or give John an opportunity to make amends. I figured I had nothing further to lose, so I chose the latter, though, tellingly, he said he couldn’t give me any money back on the paint. He actually said “the painter ripped us both off.”

For the next few weeks, John did seem to be more attentive. He paid for a mobile blast service to strip the bubbling paint and took the car to a friend who was a “body man” to fix some things (about $ 500 worth). Then, as September turned to October, the ghosting began again. When we did speak, details were scant. He was even reluctant to tell me exactly where the car was! All the while he was supposed to be working on the engine. He told me “it’s all together, turning over and almost ready to fire…you’ll hear it run tomorrow” at least five times. It’s just a 2.0 with 96mm pistons to make it a (D-Jet) 2056 and it was now going on 6 months. The final excuse was that he didn’t have a good fuel injection harness to test with.

Around Thanksgiving communication came to a dead stop, with numerous emails and calls unreturned for nearly a month. When I finally reached him, he apologized again and said he wouldn’t be able to get the engine running until some other work came in. At that point I realized that I immediately needed to get the engine, the parts and the car, which was in Winston-Salem, back to my garage.

@Joea9146 was kind enough to pick up the engine and I arranged to get everything trucked up to NY. Thanks, Joe for being a great example of what this community is really about.

I sent the car off to my body and paint guy who literally shook his head when he saw it. I took inventory of all the parts and let John know which ones were missing (some LE-specific)…but it’s now May and I still haven’t heard back from him. I don’t expect to.

Given everything I’d experienced, I thought it would be a good idea to give the engine a closer look before I invested further time and money. I knew that John would be re-using some parts, provided they were in good shape, but I was pretty shocked at what I discovered….in order, and with some pics:

– The valve covers have gasket adhesive “webs” inside the cavities.
– The pushrod tube retaining wires are missing
– The 3-4 cylinders are not on an even plane, so no way the heads can seal.



– Head gaskets were installed
– The deck height is excessive and inconsistent (ranging from .080 to .100, not including the head gaskets.)
– The #4 register has dropped by about .020, causing the sealing issues and deck height variance.
– The cam shaft is worn.



– No crush washer / felt ring was installed on the used, unturned flywheel. The brand new clutch and –pressure plate I sent were bolted up to this. Also the o-ring and bearing aren't fresh.



– The crank end play was basically zero. So tight that the shims are imprinted and concave.
– The MPS which came with the 2.0 engine is for a 1.7.
– Only about a quart of break in oil was in the engine.

As for the heads, it doesn't look like there are any cracks, but the valve job is poor. This pic shows the #4 intake valve sitting lower, which could indicate a bunch of issues and result in unequal combustion chamber volume.



Needless to say, I now need to split the case and start from scratch. There’s no way this engine would’ve run. If it had, it wouldn’t have run well…or for long.

I’ve been in the service business for 35 years and dealt with lots of people, but this situation has perplexed me. John’s a great guy to chat about 914s with and I honestly don’t believe that he intended to deceive. Though he could have duped me. Perhaps he just doesn’t deal with challenges well...or circumstances have caused him to lose a step. However you loook at it, he certainly wasn’t forthcoming or proactive in a meaningful way.

Others may disagree, but in my experience, the quality of his work is grossly unprofessional and sub-par. He was laser-focused on receiving deposit money, but not nearly as much about finishing the job. Could my experience be a fluke? Maybe. But I care about this community enough to share this story so that others can approach Mr. Forbes and his "Speed and Custom shop with their eyes open.

As I write about this, I realize that my issue is less about what happened and more about how John handled it. Car restoration always has bumps in the road. If he had been more transparent, communicative and collaborative, I’m sure we could’ve worked things out more positively.

The good news is that nothing he did or didn’t do is permanent. The bumblebee is well on its way to being awesome. And I’ll be creating videos of every step along the way. Engine suggestions and help welcome!

Caveat emptor…

Ian

[Bleyseng]

Well that was hard to read and sorry for your bad experience....sheesh.

[mepstein]

Well that was hard to read and sorry for your bad experience....sheesh.

Yes. I sort of knew the story but still hard to read. Unfortunately it's not uncommon in the Porsche repair and restoration world.

Ian - If you are looking for any parts and I have them, they're yours. Just let me know.

[tygaboy]

I'm like you; too trusting. Sad that it's so difficult to find a reliable shop. I got ripped off on a '53 Suburban hot build to the point that I decided I'd just have to learn to do things myself.
Problem is, I have too many cars I'd like to build. I'd be happy to pay someone else for a build but I worry I'd be disappointed.

I will say that I appreciate you sharing your experience but mostly, I admire your attitude and stick-to-it-ism and commitment to complete your BumbleBee!

Looking forward to watching your build!

[rjames]

Wow. I don’t know that if that had happened to me that I could’ve told the story in the same calm and gracious manner that you did.

Can’t wait to see the final build, glad it’s in good hands now!

[Superhawk996]

Stories like this are what make me OCD about trying to do everything myself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

The good news is that car and parts are now in your control Ian. Persevere!

[billh1963]

I've had a couple of negative experiences with the shop in question. Fortunately, they were minor.

At least one other person on this forum had a VERY expensive bad experience.

[BeatNavy]

I guess there are two broad kinds of vendors in this world: those that intentionally burn customers, those that do not. Of the latter most of the time it's because they do not know how to set expectations properly or deal with issues that invariably arise.

Particularly in the car world it's a rare vendor that handles problems effectively and transparently with the customer. And that's why, as others have said, I'm trying to do everything myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I hope things are getting better now, Ian. Onward and upward.

[ejm]

Ian - I've still got those parts we talked about set aside.

[76-914]

Wow Ian! You've the patience of Jobe. More importantly your attitude has remained intact. In years past I've had employees that experienced big changes in their performance. It has been my experience that it was always one of two things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[preach]

Very well said Ian. I am sure there is more to the story but the high road you have taken is exemplary.

Good luck with the Bumble, my 914 stuff is minimal but it is yours if I can offer it.

Additionally, I love the vids. Basic? Sure, but well done and I watch them all.

Dan
preach
gnrrpreacher
@ridgerunner914

[911GT2]

Sorry to read this. With my ordeal fresh in mind, I know how it feels to have have money somewhere and not be able to get through to the guy you need.

Hopefully this gets sorted soon now it's in other hands.

[iankarr]

Thanks, Guys. I don't know if I'm all that patient. The nice thing about time is that it removes the heat of the moment from the situation, leaving only the cold hard facts.

@beatnavy - I totally agree. One the one hand, there are shops which intentionally look to rip people off. On the other, there are shops who believe they're doing the right thing, but there's so much gray area in the auto resto world that they never communicate enough to make sure their expectations are in sync with their customers. As you can hopefully tell...I like to be clear in my communication. I, also do as much as I can myself (and hopefully encourage others with my videos). Now, if only I had a paint booth....(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'm not sure where BFR stands on the spectrum, but I do know that I got burned for the cost of the paint, which needs to be taken completely down, plus the money I gave him for the engine "work", and 10 months of time and aggravation. That's unacceptable by any measure or expectation.

@mepstein, @preach and @ejm -thanks again for your generosity. Will be in touch! I'm so fired up to make this car awesome. This BFR experience is totally in the rear view mirror, but I wanted to tell the story for the benefit of others...

[jagalyn]

You've got a good heart Ian... Blessings.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I had a similar experience with John. He needed some 356 parts for a Speedster he was working on and offered a B Coupe body he had on top of one of his trailer boxes as a trade. I said ok, sent him his parts and told him I would be down at some point to get the body, he said no rush, it's not going anywhere. Fast forward a few months, I see on Instagram he's loading the B body on a trailer, he sold it. I asked why he was selling my car, he said I never came for it. Oh well, I was out the parts, lesson learned.
He actually had the gall to call me about a year later needing some 356 parts for an A Coupe, he said he would make it right on the other parts. I said nope, nope, nopity, nope, find your 356 stuff somewhere else.
Haven't heard from him since.

[iankarr]

Wow. So...he didn’t think to call and ask if you were picking up the car. Just sold it and hoped you wouldn’t notice. Sounds about right. As long is it works for him, it’s good. Funny how he miraculously found your number when he needed something...

[Unobtanium-inc]

Wow. So...he didn’t think to call and ask if you were picking up the car. Just sold it and hoped you wouldn’t notice. Sounds about right. As long is it works for him, it’s good. Funny how he miraculously found your number when he needed something...

Yeah, he was real casual about it. I have a friend who has a good outlook on getting ripped off, he says if someone rips you off and it's not a lot of stuff or money, then you bought their number cheap. Like lending someone $20, and they avoid you.

[Cairo94507]

OMG Ian....I was having a ground hog day moment as I read your thread. I am so sorry you had to go through that mess. The good news is it is behind you now and your build can move forward and you will have the car you wanted. It is especially hard when someone you thought was a friend burns you like that. You handled that like a boss. I can't wait to see the progress pics of your build. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Michael

[JOEPROPER]

Hey Ian, that's some awful story. It's really too bad that that went that way. I can't say that everyone would have handled it with the class that you did, but good thing is that the car is back with you and you can move on from this learning experience.
I don't know who you're using for autobody or engine work, but if you need a recommendation, let me know. I know a few local guys that could help you out. Good luck moving forward and if there is anything I can do to help, let me know. I look forward to watching the progress on this one. Good luck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[bdstone914]

In the end I think John will be the one who gets stung worse. It is a small world of 914 owners and word travels fast. At least what you gave is fixable.
And as you can see how much help and support you will get here.
Just curious did you give him a Yelp review?