Doing a rebuild '73 2.0 motor - heads are shot |
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Doing a rebuild '73 2.0 motor - heads are shot |
DC_neun_vierzehn |
Jun 11 2022, 06:52 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 389 Joined: 16-November 20 From: Delaware Shore Member No.: 24,893 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
My '73 2.0 motor needs a rebuild. Different shops are recommending different approaches to replacing the heads, which are both cracked (near the spark plug holes).
One shop doesn't believe in using "Chinese crap" and wants to try and search the planet for NOS or great condition heads, but has no leads (nor do they think welding/repairing my heads is a good idea). The other shop is open to using high quality repos like the Len Hoffman 2.0 heads. What have folks used for replacement heads on a 2.0 rebuild that are performing well years later? Are there any options out there for finding NOS or top shape used 2.0 heads? FYI - keeping the motor stock - no mods on the rebuild. Thanks in advance. |
mepstein |
Jun 11 2022, 07:05 PM
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#2
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,312 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Len’s heads are great but 50 year old 911 heads get rebuilt all the time. If you can find a shop that you trust, go for it. If the guy who only wants to use nos can find a set, great but I’ve never seen a rainbow unicorn.
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DC_neun_vierzehn |
Jun 11 2022, 07:22 PM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 389 Joined: 16-November 20 From: Delaware Shore Member No.: 24,893 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Len’s heads are great but 50 year old 911 heads get rebuilt all the time. If you can find a shop that you trust, go for it. If the guy who only wants to use nos can find a set, great but I’ve never seen a rainbow unicorn. Thanks Mark. Who's a good person/shop to rebuild 914 heads? |
nditiz1 |
Jun 11 2022, 07:48 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,191 Joined: 26-May 15 From: Mount Airy, Maryland Member No.: 18,763 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I think even Len stopped working on fixing the stock heads because of issues later on down the road, hidden cracks, more develop.
Couple of options: See the cost of a local shop. One in Severna Park MD, maybe Cooker VW does them. Or ship them to Ollie's/someone else - cost dependent on time and what needs to be done Cheapest option - AA Performance heads, bring them to a VW shop to get springs and valves installed. Should be fine. Lens Chinese option - not sure if he has made any more since the last run. They were running good. I had them on an engine. Longevity seems fine. -$1500+ based on options Lens bus conversion heads / Type4 store - I think these were $3400 last time I checked. Well made, pretty sure Raby runs these. |
Steve H |
Jun 11 2022, 09:26 PM
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#5
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 3-May 03 From: Los Angeles, Ca Member No.: 646 |
Well, you just might be in luck. I have had some NOS parts sitting in the guest bedroom closet for at least the past 15 years waiting to have a stock, GA case, 2.0L engine built from the ground up. I'm beginning to think this build might not get done. I have the following:
NOS 2.0L German Porsche/VW heads still smothered in cosmoline from the factory NOS 2.0L German Porsche/VW crankshaft smothered in cosmoline from the factory NOS 2.0L German Mahle 94mm High Comp. Pistons & Cylinders, rings and wrist pins Original GA (t-4) case. Casework has already been prepared by George at European Motorworks in Hawthorn, Ca. Case was align bored with oil galley holes drilled and tapped. Set of main bearings to match also purchased. I'm out of town until Monday but will be happy to send photos or talk if you have any interest. Please note that I'm of Norwegian Decent and not Nigerian. George at European knows me as does Bruce Stone and Leamon Stamsell from So Cal. Either way, good luck with your build. |
DC_neun_vierzehn |
Jun 12 2022, 06:18 AM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 389 Joined: 16-November 20 From: Delaware Shore Member No.: 24,893 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Well, you just might be in luck. I have had some NOS parts sitting in the guest bedroom closet for at least the past 15 years waiting to have a stock, GA case, 2.0L engine built from the ground up. I'm beginning to think this build might not get done. I have the following: NOS 2.0L German Porsche/VW heads still smothered in cosmoline from the factory NOS 2.0L German Porsche/VW crankshaft smothered in cosmoline from the factory NOS 2.0L German Mahle 94mm High Comp. Pistons & Cylinders, rings and wrist pins Original GA (t-4) case. Casework has already been prepared by George at European Motorworks in Hawthorn, Ca. Case was align bored with oil galley holes drilled and tapped. Set of main bearings to match also purchased. I'm out of town until Monday but will be happy to send photos or talk if you have any interest. Please note that I'm of Norwegian Decent and not Nigerian. George at European knows me as does Bruce Stone and Leamon Stamsell from So Cal. Either way, good luck with your build. @Steve_H PM sent |
ClayPerrine |
Jun 12 2022, 06:24 AM
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#7
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,512 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
Just my $.02....
Use 1.8L heads fitted with 2.0L valves. Yes, you lose a small fraction of the available horsepower due to the spark plug location. But you gain a bunch more by doing this. 1. The heads don't crack between the spark plug hole and the valve seat. 2. There is a lot more engine tin out there for the taking. 3. They are much cheaper than the 2.0 heads. The long term reliability of them is proven. The engine for Betty's car has a set that is close to 100K on them and they are still going strong. Clay |
mgphoto |
Jun 12 2022, 12:04 PM
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#8
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"If there is a mistake it will find me" Group: Members Posts: 1,339 Joined: 1-April 09 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,225 Region Association: Southern California |
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914werke |
Jun 12 2022, 01:25 PM
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#9
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"I got blisters on me fingers" Group: Members Posts: 10,124 Joined: 22-March 03 From: USofA Member No.: 453 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Rebuild the heads. BUT since you will be replacing seats & welding cracks re-size spark plugs to smaller 12mm or even 10mm units (I typically go 12mm but 10mm is a must for dual plug applications).
Addresses the potential for cracking in that same location due to more metal being left. |
DC_neun_vierzehn |
Jun 12 2022, 07:43 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 389 Joined: 16-November 20 From: Delaware Shore Member No.: 24,893 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Rebuild the heads. BUT since you will be replacing seats & welding cracks re-size spark plugs to smaller 12mm or even 10mm units (I typically go 12mm but 10mm is a must for dual plug applications). Addresses the potential for cracking in that same location due to more metal being left. @914werk Do you have a shop you recommend for this work? |
DC_neun_vierzehn |
Jun 12 2022, 07:52 PM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 389 Joined: 16-November 20 From: Delaware Shore Member No.: 24,893 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I think even Len stopped working on fixing the stock heads because of issues later on down the road, hidden cracks, more develop. Couple of options: See the cost of a local shop. One in Severna Park MD, maybe Cooker VW does them. Or ship them to Ollie's/someone else - cost dependent on time and what needs to be done Cheapest option - AA Performance heads, bring them to a VW shop to get springs and valves installed. Should be fine. Lens Chinese option - not sure if he has made any more since the last run. They were running good. I had them on an engine. Longevity seems fine. -$1500+ based on options Lens bus conversion heads / Type4 store - I think these were $3400 last time I checked. Well made, pretty sure Raby runs these. @nditiz1 Thank you for the suggestions. What's the shop's name in Severna Park? I'm familiar with Cooker VW (went to high school with Gene Cook actually). Hadn't considered them bc most of the work I hear of them doing is body, paint, interior, etc., but I'll check to see if they do motors too. Tell me more about Ollie's - I'm not familiar. Is there a website? |
JMT |
Jun 12 2022, 08:55 PM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 36 Joined: 19-August 16 From: Ca Member No.: 20,316 Region Association: None |
I'm in the same boat as you. lost a valve seat 6 days ago and started a thread here. This is what I'm looking at. Maybe this is something you are looking for?
https://aapistons.com/collections/stock-per...eads-44x36-pair One of the members recommended Tabari Andrade. He is a machinist on this site also. |
Montreal914 |
Jun 12 2022, 09:25 PM
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#13
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,582 Joined: 8-August 10 From: Claremont, CA Member No.: 12,023 Region Association: Southern California |
European Motorworks (Jorge) in Hawthorn repaired my 2.0 heads a few years ago. Plugged the spark plug hole and re-drilled to 12mm. Don't know what they currently look like as I haven't dismantled the engine but was running nice after about 30k miles. Restoring the car at the moment. Might reopen the engine later.
Good luck! Seems like you have a few options between those NOS one offered, the AA new castings, repairing the current ones, and more. Something to remember, the 914 2.0 heads were re-engineered by Porsche, that is why they differ from the bus 2.0 heads. They offer better performance. HAM (well known in the industry) does use the 914 2.0 chamber design in their heads, so it must be a good one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
930cabman |
Jun 13 2022, 07:42 AM
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#14
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,144 Joined: 12-November 20 From: Buffalo Member No.: 24,877 Region Association: North East States |
Is HAM rebuilding? or is there a decent head rebuilder on the East coast?
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DC_neun_vierzehn |
Jun 16 2022, 08:03 PM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 389 Joined: 16-November 20 From: Delaware Shore Member No.: 24,893 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Question ...
What are the differences between the 73-74 2.0 heads (039 101 351 E) and the 75-76 2.0 heads (039 101 351 G)? Can they be used interchangeably (direct swaps)? Thanks in advance. |
JamesJ |
Jul 6 2022, 12:19 AM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 30-April 20 From: Sunnyvale, CA Member No.: 24,202 Region Association: Northern California |
I am having a 2056 built by European Motorworks and am using AA bare castings. They will be replacing the seats because they don't trust the seats they come with. The 2 liter heads flow better and have a more desirable spark plug location. Yes, they are more susceptible to cracking, but I am not concerned about it since I am using new heads. If you are concerned about cracking, you can have additional material added to new or used heads and go with a 12mm or 10mm spark plug hole, as was suggested. I didn't go that route because I didn't like the idea of adding material(and heating up) a new head. As far as I know, Len at HAM is using AA or AMC castings and improving them and is only building heads for sale via the Type IV Store. Somebody can correct me if I am wrong. If Len isn't using used heads, I wouldn't either...50 years old and too many heat cycles; but then again, he is a builder and has to stand behind his engines, you just have to sit in front of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)
You mentioned keeping the motor stock, but consider going with 96mm P&C. It's a nice upgrade and you can keep your stock FI. |
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