Help me help you Seal fitment, Started a new thread to deconstruct this Options

[Mikey914]

This was brought us as an issue and I'm really trying to figure this out. Any ideas of why the window would look lower and have a gap here.


Here were my thoughts -

I keep looking at this and something doesn't look right. Given that the blocks are identical to the factory ones in shape and durometer, what would the solution be here?

There appears to be a 1/2" section of rubber not fully seated, Is it holding it out?

Could the amount of butyl behind the "chrome" be holding it down slightly? I don't think that would be the whole story.

The triangle window looks like the top is seated deeper than the cap. Almost like if the top of the triangle window was shimmed out more it would push the bottom of the cap out more to "close the gap". This appears to be where the failure is - at least in my eyes. I've seen many of the caps worn and look slightly deformed from the top of the glass pushing it out, but not here. It looks like it's barely engaged.

Why it would sit lower is beyond me. The initial complaint was it was too tight, which would hold it up.


Submitted to the brain trust

[bbrock]

There appears to be a 1/2" section of rubber not fully seated, Is it holding it out?

Just replied on the other thread, but I think the above is the bulk of the issue. If you look at the pic, the seal does not tightly follow the contour of the chrome channel on the windshield from where it makes the tight bend at the top. The seal block is too stiff to hold that shape. That makes the triangle cap contact the windshield seal farther rearward than it should and the resistance is enough to defect the triangle channel similarly rearward to prevent a good seal. Curious what others with first-hand experience think.

[bkrantz]

Hi, Mark. That's my right side in the photo.

I tried all sorts of adjustment, with the front channel base all the way back (pushing the top forward) and all the way front (with the top rearward), along with the inward-outward adjustment. The photo shows the best fit I could get: top forward and inward. I even thought about enlarging the adjustment hole for the base inside the door, but the angle of the rear edge of the window was already a bit tilted forward relative to the seal on the targa sail. I did remove and reinstall the main seal I got from you.

When I look at the gap again, it makes me want to reshape the aluminum trim piece on the A-pillar. I installed that with a thin butyl tape, and it seems to be parallel to the pillar.

[914_7T3]

My right side is also off and always thought it was a door shim issue as I ran out of adjustment of the triangle window frame. I would love to see a solution for this.

[Chris914n6]

Funny I just looked into this this morning.

Short answer... top of the glass channel needs to be moved forward til the rear edge aligns with the rear point of the frame seal molding. It's not the seal, it's the alignment of the glass channel.

[Mikey914]

If you follow the leading edge of the glass, it looks like if it were 1/4" higher it woud fit perfectly.

[Chris914n6]

A picture is worth 35 words

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1660202105.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1660202106.2.jpg)

[Olympic 914]

can anyone add the dimensions of the roof opening?

thinking that if the A pillar is moved back, the triangle window would not be able to be adjusted to fit right.

I know in my younger, more foolish days, i had jumped into the car without opening the door. and probably had my hand on the A pillar when doing so. Which would have pushed it down.

[Superhawk996]

can anyone add the dimensions of the roof opening?

thinking that if the A pillar is moved back, the triangle window would not be able to be adjusted to fit right.

I know in my younger, more foolish days, i had jumped into the car without opening the door. and probably had my hand on the A pillar when doing so. Which would have pushed it down.

The dimension is "f" -- 25 1/8"



Side note: Not sure why we now have two threads going on the same topic.

[bbrock]

can anyone add the dimensions of the roof opening?

thinking that if the A pillar is moved back, the triangle window would not be able to be adjusted to fit right.

I know in my younger, more foolish days, i had jumped into the car without opening the door. and probably had my hand on the A pillar when doing so. Which would have pushed it down.

It's true that the rake of the A pillar will affect the fit as you say, but in my case, the car was braced and adjusted to dial in the roof dimension to exact factory spec during restoration.

The problem I have is that adjusting the triangle channel forward to fit as @Chris914n6 shows doesn't work because the seal simply pushes it back when the door is shut. As I tried to explain in the other thread, if I could adjust so the channel and window cap were just a little shorter, then I think it would work, but I couldn't find a way to do that.

[Mikey914]

Funny I just looked into this this morning.

Short answer... top of the glass channel needs to be moved forward til the rear edge aligns with the rear point of the frame seal molding. It's not the seal, it's the alignment of the glass channel.

This is what I was asking. My cars the old cap is actually deformed from holding the glass on, where it looks like this one is a bit short.

My experience with these cars is that it's not always as it appears. Sometimes a little change can affect other parts in ways that are not apparent.

There does seem to be a theme. So we will need to do a video of how we install and adjust to fit. I will begin this this next week.

[Mikey914]

can anyone add the dimensions of the roof opening?

thinking that if the A pillar is moved back, the triangle window would not be able to be adjusted to fit right.

I know in my younger, more foolish days, i had jumped into the car without opening the door. and probably had my hand on the A pillar when doing so. Which would have pushed it down.

The dimension is "f" -- 25 1/8"



Side note: Not sure why we now have two threads going on the same topic.

I started this thread with a new title to specifically ask for help from the community to address the problem. Calling that out specifically. It has yielded some different responses that are valid. I have posted up in the other thread as well. Explaining what the process is that we use, as well as how we size the seal and determine material specifications.

I do believe there is an issue here. It is definitely a compound question that the answer is not apparent. It's not as simple as make it softer, make it taller, install like this, not like that.

This is the main reason I'm seeking community input.

[Root_Werks]

@Mikey914

There are a few good pictures and the first one of the yellow 914 to me doesn't look adjusted correctly. Most 914's were not fixed correctly after being bumped or worse, mine wasn't. But my door posts line up just fine.

I think your seal is okay, not perfect, but works. It takes time to adjust not only the door correctly, but the post and the window so it doesn't pull back or push the post.

I'll see if I can get a picture or two of my 914....

[Superhawk996]

It is definitely a compound question that the answer is not apparent. It's not as simple as make it softer, make it taller, install like this, not like that.

This is the main reason I'm seeking community input.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Now I understand the 2nd thread. Thanks!

[Root_Werks]

The picture with the yellow 914 the post looks too high and too far back. Should be closer to this:

[bbrock]

The picture with the yellow 914 the post looks too high and too far back. Should be closer to this:

I agree completely with this, but IIRC, there is no vertical adjustment for the post. There is fore-aft adjustment at the bottom that pivots the top of the post fore-aft but I believe the pivot also determines the height of the post which is not adjustable. Did I miss that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

My car looks like the yellow car pic and all of the opening dimensions are right at factory spec. I'd love to drop that post down a smidge but the gods are witness that I tried.

[mb911]

Here is my car. Don't care for the fit. I am now all about just driving it with these wonky fit ups.

[bkrantz]

The picture with the yellow 914 the post looks too high and too far back. Should be closer to this:

I agree completely with this, but IIRC, there is no vertical adjustment for the post. There is fore-aft adjustment at the bottom that pivots the top of the post fore-aft but I believe the pivot also determines the height of the post which is not adjustable. Did I miss that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

My car looks like the yellow car pic and all of the opening dimensions are right at factory spec. I'd love to drop that post down a smidge but the gods are witness that I tried.

I will repeat what I tried (on both sides) on my yellow car. The photo shows the fit with the top of the channel adjusted all the way forward and all the way inward. This means the adjustment at the base of the channel in the door bottom is all the way rearward and outward. I even tried to use all the freeplay in the holes at the top of the door to shove the channel forward.

And that is correct about adjustment: nothing for up and down.

[bkrantz]

can anyone add the dimensions of the roof opening?

thinking that if the A pillar is moved back, the triangle window would not be able to be adjusted to fit right.

I know in my younger, more foolish days, i had jumped into the car without opening the door. and probably had my hand on the A pillar when doing so. Which would have pushed it down.

The dimension is "f" -- 25 1/8"


Side note: Not sure why we now have two threads going on the same topic.

I started this thread with a new title to specifically ask for help from the community to address the problem. Calling that out specifically. It has yielded some different responses that are valid. I have posted up in the other thread as well. Explaining what the process is that we use, as well as how we size the seal and determine material specifications.

I do believe there is an issue here. It is definitely a compound question that the answer is not apparent. It's not as simple as make it softer, make it taller, install like this, not like that.

This is the main reason I'm seeking community input.

Mark, I appreciate your interest and effort.

It might be that the vent window glass is sitting too far rearward at the top. In my yellow car I used factory vent window rubber, and I think I set the glass fully into the groove along the channel as well as the groove along the top of the door.

I can try to answer any other questions you have.
Bob

[Mikey914]

Here is my car. Don't care for the fit. I am now all about just driving it with these wonky fit ups.

This is a matter of not centering the seal on install. Put it in on the middle, then work your way out. It is possible to pull to one side. Should be able to pull off and reset.