really dumb question...but inquiring minds want to know, Nitrous - WTH Options

[Type 47]

never saw a post about the juice. Just doesn't make sense for a type 4??

[Superhawk996]

Which parts of the engine and/or car are you unhappy with and wanting to break first?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Type 47]

yeah, that's what I thought.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[mepstein]

It would be fun to try on a spare 1.7/1.8.

[emerygt350]

I mean, if you ran it thin enough, like a 20 shot or something. Maybe use the csv to enrich it (just kidding).

If it was a quality job, and you couldn't activate it below 3k, and it was a small shot, I bet it would work.

[technicalninja]

https://www.amazon.com/Nitrous-Oxide-Inject...d/dp/0931472164

If you're serious this book will show you how big time.

That author is stupid "old school" and an absolute wizard.

All his stuff is worth reading...

He's biggest in airflow modifications (head/manifold porting).

He likes to use 30 degree intake seats and his reasoning is sound and based in physics.

Biggest need with nitrous is a really good (oversized) exhaust path which the type 4 is lacking...

Properly done 50-75 hp gain should be possible on a type 4 and it should not badly reduce lifespan.

Main problem with nitrous is that most kits add the full amount of nitrous when the system is engaged hence the need to be 1/2 way through the rpm range at activation.

They now make progressive controllers that throttle the nitrous boost exactly like a carburator. These work great but by the time you get all you need for a progressive system you're at 1500-2000 dollars and you still have to buy the nitrous.

Make damn sure you have a source for nitrous bottle re-fills close by or you will not be happy with your nitrous set up.

When done exactly right (injecting liquid instead of gas) the cooling of the intake charge (100 degree drop) actually pulls more air through the intake than in non-nitrous mode.

The reason nitrous has a bad reputation is because folks don't understand all of the ramifications of using it and if a 100 hp shot feels great then a 150 hp shot should be that much better...

It breaks shit with too much nitrous too soon.

The guy with a single shot 300 hp system will ALWAYS be a full second slower over the quarter that that same system set up progressive.

[technicalninja]

That book states that the first critters to use nitrous injection extensively was the Germans during WWII.
They used it for high altitude aircraft and had a significant advantage over everyone else.
They used it for HOURS, not seconds as it is used in automobiles today.

Now, to the OP...
The uses of nitrous requires a properly tunes and provisioned engine with no previous running issues.

It has to be PERFECT before you add laughing gas.

You have to know what you are doing and be conservative in the use of this "power adder".

German engines using nitrous are the OG in the nitrous world...

[Superhawk996]

The reason nitrous has a bad reputation is because folks don't understand all of the ramifications of using it and if a 100 hp shot feels great then a 150 hp shot should be that much better...

It breaks shit with too much nitrous too soon.

What you just laid out is the essence of the American hot rodder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I’m going to keep saying this - regardless of what you do to hot rod a 914, a 16 year old in a Tesla is still going to lay waste to you in the 1/4 mile or stop light to stop light. . So to the OPs original question, I humbly suggest that any potential hot rodder needs to really think about what it is that’s trying to be accomplished.

I’ve been around the racing and hot rodding scene long enough to keep seeing the same things over and over. Very few consider the system implications of what they are doing.

If you’re lucky, the first thing to let go will be the clutch. They are cheap and easy to replace. Then they get the bright idea that what is needed is the “Stage 3” kit from We Go Fast Racing Inc. or whoever is promising their clutch and pressure plate is the greatest on the planet.

Next thing you know, axles, drive shaft U joints or whatever becomes the next fuse. So predictably, they upgrade the driveline to super Chro-Mo go fast parts.

Eventually they break the pinion or teeth start breaking off the ring gear.

Once the driveline is beefed up, then the engine failures start in earnest, bent rods, cracking crankshafts. Good times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

Sometimes the order of the failures is swapped around depending on where the weak links in the vehicle are. Regardless, the same general song and dance occurs.

It usually only ends after they now have $20k or more “invested” into what started as a $10k car. Usually at that point they are tired, broke, and sell the car.

[technicalninja]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

This dance has been happening since the beginning of time and will never end as long as humans have a competitive drive.

Electrics are the future although I believe giving a sixteen-year-old kid a 10 second car is as irresponsible as giving him a class 3 weapon.

The parents should be held accountable...

The question I was answering was "can nitrous be used?".
The answer is yes, with proper education and conservatism.

The question "should nitrous be used?" is not what I tried to answer.

That always has to be answered by the owner...

I have NO plans to include nitrous in my air-cooled builds.

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

This dance has been happening since the beginning of time and will never end as long as humans have a competitive drive.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I just find it hilarious that so many folks don’t realize that EVs have changed everything with respect to straight line 0-60 or 1/4 mile performance.

Trying to modify a 914 to compete with an EV in a straight line is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Straight line performance was never what 914s were about anyway.

Sure you can put a V8 in a 914 and get more power but you just raise the Cg and can’t get enough tire under it to keep it hooked up to maintain traction without AWD. A Tesla can’t touch a 914 in the twisties - and that is truly amazing given how long ago the teener was engineered.

[technicalninja]

Just look at the torque curve on an EV.

It's often a straight line...

Even Porsche is getting into them.

I am a technician and most true EVs cannot really be worked on.

They get "bricked" and parts are not available except in complete units.

And it's all fun and games until the current technology batteries catch on fire.

If I had a brand new Porsche Taycan I would NOT park it in a garage that was attached to my house...

And, that car, I would lease.

Turn that puppy in at three years and get another.

That is what the German car companies want you to do in the modern world.

It's the ONLY way I'd own a modern BMW; never intending to keep it forever.

My E36 M3 and 914 will end up going to my son after I get shipped off...

[bkrantz]

The reason nitrous has a bad reputation is because folks don't understand all of the ramifications of using it and if a 100 hp shot feels great then a 150 hp shot should be that much better...

It breaks shit with too much nitrous too soon.

What you just laid out is the essence of the American hot rodder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I’m going to keep saying this - regardless of what you do to hot rod a 914, a 16 year old in a Tesla is still going to lay waste to you in the 1/4 mile or stop light to stop light. .

So, glue a 914 body on a Tesla chassis?

[r_towle]

I’m still sad they stopped building the original Tesla sports car.
It seems every EV is still big, and ugly.

[ClayPerrine]

So, glue a 914 body on a Tesla chassis?

No, put a 914 body on a Taycan chassis.

The Taycan has a void in the chassis where the rear footwell is located. If you take that out, the wheebase is the same as a 914. I actually took a tape measure and checked a friend's Taycan when they were not looking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)



Once you do that, drop a flared 914 body on top of the Taycan chassis.

If I ever win the lotto, I am going to Porsche's special wish department with a flared 914 chassis and asking them to put a Taycan drive train in it. That way you can take it to Parade and kick butt in the AX competition.

But then again, I want to take a Bentley 6.0L twin turbo W-12 motor, hook it to a Cayman S PDK trans, and stick it in a 914.

My wife says I would be dangerous if we won the lotto. That's why she bought me a T-shirt that says "Automotively Irresponsible".

[ClayPerrine]

What you just laid out is the essence of the American hot rodder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I’m going to keep saying this - regardless of what you do to hot rod a 914, a 16 year old in a Tesla is still going to lay waste to you in the 1/4 mile or stop light to stop light. . So to the OPs original question, I humbly suggest that any potential hot rodder needs to really think about what it is that’s trying to be accomplished.

I’ve been around the racing and hot rodding scene long enough to keep seeing the same things over and over. Very few consider the system implications of what they are doing.

If you’re lucky, the first thing to let go will be the clutch. They are cheap and easy to replace. Then they get the bright idea that what is needed is the “Stage 3” kit from We Go Fast Racing Inc. or whoever is promising their clutch and pressure plate is the greatest on the planet.

Next thing you know, axles, drive shaft U joints or whatever becomes the next fuse. So predictably, they upgrade the driveline to super Chro-Mo go fast parts.

Eventually they break the pinion or teeth start breaking off the ring gear.

Once the driveline is beefed up, then the engine failures start in earnest, bent rods, cracking crankshafts. Good times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

Sometimes the order of the failures is swapped around depending on where the weak links in the vehicle are. Regardless, the same general song and dance occurs.

It usually only ends after they now have $20k or more “invested” into what started as a $10k car. Usually at that point they are tired, broke, and sell the car.

This describes my car in High school. The combination of a 69 Firebird, income from a part time minimum wage job at Jack-In-The-Box, the need for more power and a lot of talent with little experience.

I did the research and built a hot rod motor for my car. It was great. But I ended up putting 14 automatic transmissions and 4 manuals in it before I finally built one that would last. Next I started blowing U-joints. Finally saved up enough to buy Lakewood U-joints, and then I blew up the differential 5 times. I eventually put a Ford 9 inch rear end under it with two differentials. One 3:90 geared for daily driving, and one 4:33 with welded spider gears for weekend drags.

Then I bought a 924 and started running autocross events. That led to meeting Betty, and the rest is history.

[Superhawk996]

Then I bought a 924 and started running autocross events. That led to meeting Betty, and the rest is history.

God bless Betty for getting you away from water pumpers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)