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> 914/6 vs. 914/4 AX Performance, Heated Disscussion Within
Britain Smith
post Nov 15 2005, 11:02 PM
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I know this guy...he is looking to purchase a 914...wants to be really fast on the AX course...and can't decide between an original 6 (or conversion) w/ 2.7L (or some sort of uprated motor) or a Raby (or similar) four cylinder.

Putting the discussion on equal playing grounds, lets say that both chassis are identical, which would be faster on the AX course? This is assuming a well built chassis, with a cage, upgraded suspension, hoosiers (or similar) tires, etc.

For AX purposes, my vote would go for the 4-cylinder car all the way. I have my reasons, but I want to hear yours first...so which is it?

-Britain
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Andyrew
post Nov 15 2005, 11:06 PM
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Well, a T4 can make a bunch of tq (autox good) and also built properly, rev high.

Then there the fact that the T4 is also lighter...

Equally built, ie, same car, throw in a 150hp 4 in, take times. throw a 160hp 6 (added power due to added weight), and 40lb stiffer springs.. the 4 I believe would be faster...


But you cant make 300hp very easily from a 4...
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SirAndy
post Nov 15 2005, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (Britain Smith @ Nov 15 2005, 10:02 PM)
For AX purposes, my vote would go for the 4-cylinder car all the way. I have my reasons, but I want to hear yours first...so which is it?

in my experience, the powerband of a warmed over /4 is better suited for AX ...

the /6 takes too long to spool up and needs to be run at too high RPM which is a disadvantage for courses with a lot of tight corners and not many long straights.

of course, that's just MHO ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) Andy
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McMark
post Nov 15 2005, 11:13 PM
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Sixes, and especially bigger sixes, take much more finesse to drive. I'd vote for a hot four. Maybe a high revving (7500) 2056.
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Mueller
post Nov 15 2005, 11:14 PM
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at least in our region we have "proof" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

a /4 took top honors for every event they came out to...only time a /6 won was when the /4 car didn't show up (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Nov 15 2005, 11:16 PM
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Oh no- This is gonna be a heated one....

I'm going back to the machine shop now ......
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J P Stein
post Nov 15 2005, 11:25 PM
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By all means, get a T-4.
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john rogers
post Nov 15 2005, 11:27 PM
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I think it depends on the driver! If you look at the Porsche Parade as an example, 914-6s have been TTOD for years with few exceptons (hot rod 911s for instance). At local venues, where space is restricted somewhat, a lighter 4 cylinder car with a well built short geared trans, sticky tires, etc will be about unbeatable. Until James Gunn-Wilkenson comes along with a Turbo 930 of all things and even beats tube framed 914s!!! Now he at least moved to a GT2 and is winning SCCA Pro-Solo, but anyways, like I said it is the driver.
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DanT
post Nov 15 2005, 11:34 PM
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Part of the reason that Andrew B has done so well with his car is it has been lightened....way light.
No one I know with a 914-6 has gone to the extremes that Andrew has.
Andrew is a very good Axer and drives the car to its max.
A well built 2.7L with similar weight would be hard to beat with equal drivers.
I chose a 2.7L RS spec since they have a very good torque curve especially at the mid RPM ranges that would be used coming off corner in an AX.
Bill Pickering used to get pretty close to Andrew with a car that had much more weight and his car was really set up for TT not for AX.
Andrews car is a very well set up AX car not a multipurpose car that most folks have here in Norcal.

Just my $9.14 worth.
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brant
post Nov 15 2005, 11:36 PM
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How light is his car?

is this the dark car with the white arrow?

brant
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drgchapman
post Nov 15 2005, 11:39 PM
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I'm just gonna lurk for a while.......... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif)
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DanT
post Nov 15 2005, 11:44 PM
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No his car is kinda of "Grabber Blue" with parts of a Chalon kit.
Just about anywhere you look there is fiberglass or no metal, like trunk floors, no motor tin, no glass anywhere
I am not sure of the weight but it must be below 1500# ( only a guess)
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gregrobbins
post Nov 15 2005, 11:52 PM
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In the Arizona Region, PCA, we get to watch this play out at the autocrosses. Andy has his Wild6 with a 3.6L, Brian Willis had a 3.0L, Jack Amen has a 2.7L, Paul has a healthy four and Tim has a fire snorthing 2.0L four with a hot cam and a body that weighs in at about 1800 lbs.

The sixes are posting better times season to date. None of them are too happy though, a Boxster S with Hoosiers has taken ttod two out of three events. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

Me, Student Driver, I just sit back in CP with my stock 2.0L and watch them slug it out. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)
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EMRoadster
post Nov 15 2005, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (gregrobbins @ Nov 15 2005, 09:52 PM)
In the Arizona Region, PCA, we get to watch this play out at the autocrosses. Andy has his Wild6 with a 3.6L, Brian Willis had a 3.0L, Jack Amen has a 2.7L, Paul has a healthy four and Tim has a fire snorthing 2.0L four with a hot cam and a body that weighs in at about 1800 lbs.

The sixes are posting better times season to date. None of them are too happy though, a Boxster S with Hoosiers has taken ttod two out of three events. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

Me, Student Driver, I just sit back in CP with my stock 2.0L and watch them slug it out. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)

Greg R.
How many of these guy's do you expect at the AZ Region PCA event this Sunday? I'm planning to try to attend myself and would love to see this in action.
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Trekkor
post Nov 16 2005, 12:00 AM
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QUOTE
a /4 took top honors for every event they came out to...only time a /6 won was when the /4 car didn't show up


How shall I say...Wrong!!!


KT
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nebreitling
post Nov 16 2005, 12:01 AM
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if i were building an AX-only car it'd be a /4 for the weight break. look at trekkor's car vs mine (similar level of preparation): he has undoubtedly more power than i do (that six just flat hauls ass), but he doesn't get on the cam until 6k. i got torque.

that said, there's always the Fordahl 914-6....
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gregrobbins
post Nov 16 2005, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE
How many of these guy's do you expect at the AZ Region PCA event this Sunday? I'm planning to try to attend myself and would love to see this in action.


I bet you will see Andy, Brian, Tim and Jack for sure. Paul should be there as he likes the layout. Dave probably will drive up from Tucson. I will be in California and will have to miss this one.
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airsix
post Nov 16 2005, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE (J P Stein @ Nov 15 2005, 09:25 PM)
By all means, get a T-4.

JP,
Is that endorsement free of any conflicts of interest? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

I watched a 914-6 w/ 260hp (saw the dyno sheet) 2.7 dominate our club for 10 years. No -4 ever came close and many tried. No contest. Same can't be said for a 914-6 2.0, 2.2, 2.4. Those got beat by -4s periodically. But a big 6? All else being the same the six will clean up.

-Ben M.
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gregrobbins
post Nov 16 2005, 12:09 AM
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In Phoenix we have one guy with a Raby 2270, but I can not get him to come out to autocross. I would love to see how that car would do in the hands of an experienced driver compared to the sixes.

As to which is better, driver and suspension have a lot to do with the final outcome. A 2270 built right would have the six guys scratching their heads. Maybe not beat them, but sure give them a run for their money.
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Trekkor
post Nov 16 2005, 12:39 AM
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Exposure #1

Provasi drives a SIX.

My car was the fastest street legal 914 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

http://lpr.pca.org/ax/2005/lprax6/lprax6.htm

KT
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