Engine Configuration -- Hi HP motor, based on 3.0 liter -6 case Options

[nine14cats]

From previous threads and personal experience I now have a better understanding of the following:

2.7 High Compression track motor with 40 IDA Webers (inside our first 914-6)

3.2 Stock DME transplant (from previous thread here at 914Club)

3.6 993 motor with stock DME (inside Fritz, our current track car)

I would like engine configurations (comp ratio, carb sizes, cams, etc) for a 3.0 liter case motor. I am still looking at what to build for "The Beast". I can run 100+ octane race gas as this is a track only teener. I prefer injection, but carbs maybe the only way to get it on the road cost wise. I currently have a set of Weber 40's on my bench. I want a 200 hour motor if possible.

I am planning on running a 901 box behind any of the above configs except for the 3.6 if I go that route again.

What configurations and what HP can I achieve with a 3.0 case? I am open to bigger jugs..... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

Thanks for the help!

Bill P.

[iamchappy]

400 if you turbocharge it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[nine14cats]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

[TimT]

Ill help Bill spend some money (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

We built a 3.4 a few years ago that dynoed at 375 HP, the same recipe can be appied to a 3.0 depending on how much($$) you push the boundaries, you can pretty easily get over 100 HP/liter.

I imagine your keeping 3 liter displacement to avoid the cost of new pistons and cylinders?

Case & crank:

To get a good reliable 3.0 you need to build a good foundation. Firstly improve the oiling. cross drill the crank, modify the main bearing so the 2&5 rods get all the oil they need. Get a 930, or GT3 oil pump. The GT3 oil pump is the way to go since it is less expensive than the 930 pump. You wont need to shuffle pin the case. Get steel or ARP/Raceware head studs. Also Pauter or Carillo Rods, we get better service from Pauter.

Pistons&Cylinders:

since it appears your cylinders are ok. Get some JE 10.5:1 or 11.5:1 pistons. The higher cr will make cam selection, valve timing critical. triple check valve to piston clearance. Get the lightweight piston pins from JE

Heads& Valves:

Have the heads refreshed, Machine them for twin plug even if you are not going to twin plug yet (just run an old plug in the bottom hole). possibly open up the ports. Aasco Valve spring Ti retainers. Though EBS has a new valve spring Ti retainer set up that looks nice.

Camshaft:

RSR or GE80

This setup will be quite nice with carbs. You'd have to run 34 or 36 venturis and jet to suit.

It would be even better with Haltech (shameless plug) If you dont go with EFI you should take advantage of the second set of plugs though. Electromotive crankfire will work.

BTW we have a 3.0 turbo that makes 656hp

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)


PS: If you plan on pursuing EFI we have a set of TWM ITBs available

This post has been edited by TimT: Jan 2 2006, 04:32 PM

[TimT]

Modified main bearing

[TimT]

Holding fixture for bearing. We chuck this in our lathe

[nine14cats]

Hi Tim,

If I run 10.5:1 JE's with the 3.0 displacement and GE80's, how many horse will I get and what is the power band? We will use the car for both track and AX. My 2.7 with 10.5:1 JE's had a power band of 4000 to 7500 RPM. (Wecam 120/104).

And what is the HP if I kick it out to 3.2 with slip on 98's? (If I need new cylinders).

Can I get away with the Weber 40's I have or do I need 46's?

Thanks,

Bill P.

[TimT]

Your on the threshold of 46 being great for top end, long track breathing, or having 40 low end grunt giving up some top end.. 40's can work.. and 46's can work.

I see AX in the equation.. to me that says 40's

If you toss the 3.0 jugs, and go up to 3.2 you will only gain... no replacement for displacement as is often said.

figure around 300hp.. depending on the combination..

the powerband can be moved around to some extent via cam timing...

are you going to build this yourself?

[J P Stein]

Bill:
If you're still shoppin' for an engine, a very large percentage (WAG 80%) of the 3.0Ls have Alusil cyls.....bad berries for piston swaps.
The 78-79s SCs had big port heads(intake side).`

[alpha434]

300hp AND the 901 trans.

Whos going to call him on this?

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sheeplove.gif)

[DanT]

I already warned him on this one. 2.7L RS motor with short 3 and 5 gears on a 901.
4 rebuilds in 5 years with 2 cases.
Nuff said. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif)

Torque is the enemy of the 901 not the HP.

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 2 2006, 09:14 PM)

300hp AND the 901 trans. Whos going to call him on this? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sheeplove.gif)

torque kills not HP....

xitspd has a 3.6 PMO'd motor with a beefed 901.....

[alpha434]

eh...

He'd probly be ok if he just DIDN'T use 1st and regeared the rest. First is the weak one...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

[sixnotfour]

3.6 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif)
oh andy has it (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/burnout.gif)

[TimT]

3.0 case is mucho stronger than the 2.7.. you get into the transition between aluminum and magnesium..

Im just relating what we have had success doing..

basically... build up a good foundation... make the bottom end bullet proof.. once you have that covered, your options to make power become much wider....Im not concerned with what transmission the engine is bolted to..

edit: I do care about the engine transmission as a system. The most important thing when building up a high performance engine is a good bottom end.. dont skimp there

[J P Stein]

I'd start collecting 901 guts (I have, in fact) JIC. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Duffster]

re the 901...

904 main shaft, billet intermediate plate and bearing retainers, spray bars and a cooler.

If you are totally insane (I have "seen the elephant" on this one) Mojave Gear Specialties builds 901 based trans for unlimited sand rails, with 930 style syncros and cut down flame hardened gears. They speak of horse power we'll never see from a flat six without kompressor, but we'll see about that. I'm convinced that I could f'up a scrammbled egg, so if'n this set up can be broken, I'm yer guy. (ps: bring $$$$$$$$$)

[brant]

Bill,

AJRS converts all of his cars over to 915's when they hit 250hp
(and the 901's were cooled too)

Its a money thing
it becomes economical to do the conversion based upon life expectancy and rebuilds.... the conversion pays for itself in rebuild savings.

if you intend to keep the car more than a year or so then think about a smaller motor or a bigger tranny.

I watched a bunch of guys go through this. Carrying a spare tranny with them to every event is not fun.

brant

[DanT]

QUOTE (brant @ Jan 2 2006, 09:47 PM)

Bill, AJRS converts all of his cars over to 915's when they hit 250hp (and the 901's were cooled too) Its a money thing it becomes economical to do the conversion based upon life expectancy and rebuilds....  the conversion pays for itself in rebuild savings. if you intend to keep the car more than a year or so then think about a smaller motor or a bigger tranny. I watched a bunch of guys go through this.  Carrying a spare tranny with them to every event is not fun. brant

Amen, Brother Brant! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

Been there, done that! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[nine14cats]

So it's stay like I was before (2.7 hipo with a built 901) or bigger motor and 915?

Hmmm....maybe it is saying "stay 911!"

Bill P.