 How to Hot Rod Air-Cooled VW Motors, Is Bill Fisher's book the only one? |
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| Charles Deutsch |
 Sep 1 2003, 10:30 PM
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#1
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Unregistered  |
I am exploring the idea of building my own big displacement Type IV motor but there doesn't seem to be any books available on this subject. I have Bill Fisher's book, "How to Hot Rod Volkswagen Engines", but it is pretty poor, IMO. Anyone know of any other books on this subject?
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| Bleyseng |
Sep 1 2003, 10:38 PM
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#2
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Aircooled Baby!  Group: Members Posts: 13,035 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Forget the books as they are pretty outdated. Just ask questions on the BBS and Brad will answer them.................
Geoff |
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| Qarl |
Sep 1 2003, 10:53 PM
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#3
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Shriveled member Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,233 Joined: 8-February 03 From: Florida Member No.: 271 Region Association: None  |
Just ask one of our new members... Jake Raby. Also there is a lot of info on the Shop Talk Forums for Type 4.
Maybe we should collectively design a 914club "Ultimate motor". Have everyone collaborate on the specs for a type-4 motor. This would be a street car that could double duty on the track. We could all contribute thoughts on the various elements and then someone could build it.... Hmmm... this could be fun. We could look at every component of the car from cams, lifters, rod bolts, crank work, pistons and cylinders, exhaust, induction, valves, etc. David Hunt could spec out the Fuel Injection system Jake Raby could provide some good cam/head advice Slap some nikkies in there or even birals for a little less $ First thing needed would be a motor budget... say $6000 (not including the core your start with)... then a displacement (I say 2056 or 2270), and a horsepower goal... something like 130 HP would be really nice. It would have to be very realistic... parts, supplies, farmed out machine work, etc. The only thing not included would be your labor. This could be a "do it yourself" type project. Anyone want to handle this project? Karl |
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| J P Stein |
Sep 1 2003, 11:48 PM
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#4
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
$6K?
I did my 6 conversion......the 2.4L.....for $6400. 6K is more that I have into my 2.7L and that kind of power is not available with any reliable t-4. |
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| Charles Deutsch |
Sep 2 2003, 01:00 AM
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#5
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Unregistered |
What I would like to do would be to buy all of the parts for a well thought out 2270 cc motor for about $3200 (the price of a GEX turn-key motor) and just save the labor by assembling the motor myself. $6000 is too rich for my blood.
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| redshift |
Sep 2 2003, 01:07 AM
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#6
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Bless the Hell out of you! Group: Members Posts: 10,926 Joined: 29-June 03 Member No.: 869 |
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| reverie |
Sep 2 2003, 01:59 AM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 783 Joined: 14-March 03 Member No.: 427 Region Association: None |
Charles, here's a bit of reading material:
http://www.hotvws.com/Specialtybooks.html It's the book in the middle.. there's a chapter on Type 4 performance engine building.. only $10. http://www.fatperformance.com/ FAT Performance does Type 4 performance engine building and machining.. catalog is $6.. they seem to be rather an unknown for some reason.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) |
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| ChrisFoley |
Sep 2 2003, 02:12 AM
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#8
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,935 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None 
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QUOTE(Charles Deutsch @ Sep 2 2003, 03:00 AM) What I would like to do would be to buy all of the parts for a well thought out 2270 cc motor for about $3200 You won't be able to do it for that little $$$. Aircooled Technology sells kits sometimes but they cost closer to $4500. His engines are definitely well thought out. |
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| Brad Roberts |
Sep 2 2003, 02:17 AM
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#9
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
People balk at the 7k price tag we give them for a PCA legal factory injected 115hp 2.0 engine.
The racers really balk at the 14k price tag for the 1.8 FP engines....LOL (but some of them pay) B |
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| ChrisFoley |
Sep 2 2003, 02:19 AM
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#10
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,935 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(reverie @ Sep 2 2003, 03:59 AM) FAT Performance does Type 4 performance engine building and machining.. catalog is $6.. they seem to be rather an unknown for some reason.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) They don't build a lot of T4 engines anymore. They did have a pretty good reputation, but I have a customer who was quite disappointed in the engine they built him. |
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| ChrisFoley |
Sep 2 2003, 02:24 AM
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#11
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,935 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(J P Stein @ Sep 2 2003, 01:48 AM) I did my 6 conversion......the 2.4L.....for $6400. Did that include all the conversion parts - tin, motor mount, oil tank, etc. - as well as the engine, exhaust, clutch? What else did you have to do to get it in and running? |
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| Brad Roberts |
Sep 2 2003, 02:26 AM
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#12
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
I built a 2.0 6 cyl conversion car back in 1999 for 5k and used all factory 9146 parts.
B |
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| ChrisFoley |
Sep 2 2003, 02:29 AM
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#13
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,935 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Sep 2 2003, 04:17 AM) The racers really balk at the 14k price tag for the 1.8 FP engines....LOL (but some of them pay) That sounds about right, I've been figuring on $15K ready to go, but it really costs more than that the first time. Add in oil tank and lines, instrumentation, modified gearbox, carb mods, etc. and $20K won't cover it. |
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| Bleyseng |
Sep 2 2003, 06:08 AM
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#14
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,035 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
It is tough to do on the cheap and do it right. GEX doesn't do it right from what I have heard and seen in the past.
I did it pretty much myself sourcing the parts and them having everything machined. Still came out to darn near $4k. You have to get buys on the parts, someones failed project for the new pistons/cylinders maybe. The machining costs you no matter what X amount to do it right, the head work costs more to get more power. The cheapest way to get a good 2.0L four is to buy a used good motor from a guy going six! Geoff |
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| Charles Deutsch |
Sep 2 2003, 12:36 PM
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#15
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QUOTE(reverie @ Sep 1 2003, 11:59 PM) Charles, here's a bit of reading material: http://www.hotvws.com/Specialtybooks.html It's the book in the middle.. there's a chapter on Type 4 performance engine building.. only $10. http://www.fatperformance.com/ FAT Performance does Type 4 performance engine building and machining.. catalog is $6.. they seem to be rather an unknown for some reason.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Thanks for the information. I just ordered the "Performance Engines" book from Hot VWs. |
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| Charles Deutsch |
Sep 2 2003, 01:33 PM
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#16
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Unregistered |
Anyone have experience with Scat Enterprises products (cranks etc.)? Are they good quality?
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| Brad Roberts |
Sep 2 2003, 01:38 PM
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#17
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Opinions will differ... but they make cranks (in house). They have a been a leader in Type 1 stuff for 25-30 years. I like their products. I have 2 2.3 engines going together with Scat forged cranks and Carrillo rods.
B |
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| J P Stein |
Sep 2 2003, 01:54 PM
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#18
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
[QUOTE=Racer Chris,Sep 2 2003, 12:24 AM]
[/QUOTE] Did that include all the conversion parts - tin, motor mount, oil tank, etc. - as well as the engine, exhaust, clutch? What else did you have to do to get it in and running?[/QUOTE] Yuppers, the whole shooting match.....and all new parts....cept the motor. It was $2400 ... a 2.4L T with Webers. That left 4K for the rest of the stuff. It was 4 years ago, however. The oil tank (original 6er) and all the bits were 500 bucks back then. Velious mount was 500.....R Johnson's is now less than that. I didn't do cheep on anything. I did do a lot of shopping and it was my pre-computer days. I could do better on parts now, me thinks. |
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
 Sep 2 2003, 02:32 PM
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#19
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Charles Deutsch @ Sep 1 2003, 11:00 PM) What I would like to do would be to buy all of the parts for a well thought out 2270 cc motor for about $3200 (the price of a GEX turn-key motor) and just save the labor by assembling the motor myself. $6000 is too rich for my blood. DO NOT buy from GEX!!!!! I cannot stress this enough!!! Their engines are a crap shoot at best. Poor quality, wrong parts used, used parts labeled as new, out-of-spec tolerances, etc. I currently have a good friend's VW Fastback sitting in my side yard because his 'stock rebuild' GEX engine (less than 5,000 miles on it) has a #3/#4 head heat problem that is throwing his valve gapping waaaay out of spec every time the engine gets to operating temp. Two cracks leading from the spark plug hole to the exhaust seat. Wrong washers used under the head stud nuts. Case savers backing out of the case. Possible valves stretching. Type I head instead of a Type III head (T3 heads have a boss for a temp sender for the fuel injection). We pulled the head in my driveway to see what was wrong and this is just on one side. Me and my girlfriend ended up driving him back home to Santa Rosa (we're both off work, wanted to see San Fran., so what the heck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) and when he moves up to Oregon he'll pick it up (if I let him...the pan is in BEAUTIFUL condition (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) ) If anyone buys from GEX then I will personally stand in front of them, point my finger at them, and giggle while I tell you, "I told you so" while their engine sits useless in their engine bay. Yeah, they are real bastards -- good luck getting your money back from them. Nobody I know has succeeded because it's virtually impossible to prove them wrong. I would trust a blind, one-armed chimpanzee to build me a motor over GEX. |
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| tat2dphreak |
Sep 2 2003, 03:00 PM
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#20
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stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(Charles Deutsch @ Sep 2 2003, 02:00 AM) What I would like to do would be to buy all of the parts for a well thought out 2270 cc motor for about $3200 (the price of a GEX turn-key motor) and just save the labor by assembling the motor myself. $6000 is too rich for my blood. a Raby kit for a 2270 will run about 4500 I am told... plus weber 44s and a good exhaust system.... 6k is close to reality with everything said and done... |
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