removing valves?, how to? Options

[shaggy]

i finally got the heads off that has a huge PITA!

scrapped my tubes, but i have spares (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

everything is off
rockers and that weird linear spring thing
jugs are off and tubes are off

im about to start cleaning the carbon off the heads
but i want to take the valves off first
so how do i do it?

also:

my dad said something about wanting to do valve guides...does that mean head work?
of do they just dirrectly replace?

ALSO:
what should i go about cleaning the heads with?
from a friend i head carb cleaner and elbow grease
what should i really do it with?

thank
-shag

[jasons]

Look for cracks around the spark plug holes since you have 2L heads.

Also, you aint takin' the valves out. Send them out. I mean you can do it if you get a valve spring compressor, but I would just farm that work out to someone that does heads. They will clean them better than you ever could, inspect them and install anything necessary. (seats, guides, new valves etc...) Yes, thats head work.

So I will ask again.... DID YOU MEASURE THE STROKE OF THAT THING?!?!?!?!
I wanna know I sold you a real 2.0

[Mueller]

do you have a large drill press?

get a socket(cheap one) that has a body just a tad bit smaller in diameter than the valve retainer.

with a grinder, make 2 "windows" in the socket body.

place socket ontop of valve, press down on spring and remove the 2 little retaining clips from the valve

valve guides should be left to a pro, they are normally press fit in and then reamed to size

[Dr. Roger]

i usually decarbonize my combustion chambers starting with this handy tool...

[Dr. Roger]

and for valve spring removal I have one of these....

[shaggy]

i really dont wanna send the heads out
im trying to keep the rebuild price as low as possible so that i can buy more expensive parts

know ne one in town that can do head work, jason?
no i havent measured the bore or stroke
i dont have the necessary tools

Dr. can you really use those?
it isnt to abrassive on the heads?

thank
-jim

[qa1142]

This is a expensive part. Have them done by a pro

I used Tuttle's part exchange in Calf.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (shaggy @ Feb 27 2006, 05:05 PM)

i really dont wanna send the heads out im trying to keep the rebuild price as low as possible so that i can buy more expensive parts know ne one in town that can do head work, jason? no i havent measured the bore or stroke i dont have the necessary tools Dr. can you really use those? it isnt to abrassive on the heads? thank -jim

sorry, you either have to spend the money on tools and learn or you have to send it out........there are some parts of the engine that hammer, vice grips and a screwdriver are not good enough for (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

i'm going to attempt to re-build my own heads, I just hope they don't go booooommmmmmm...........

[shaggy]

good point...the last thing i need is another screwed up engine (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

so...prices generally, and time to do it?

id really like something local but if it cant be done i'd ship, being that i dont have a choice.


-jim

[Allan]

Here is the price list from Rimco for an idea of costs. Welding up cracks is extra. They did a good job on mine and they were badly cracked around both the spark plug holes and valve seats.
HEADWORK

411 / 914, 356 / 912
Surface (includes grinding fin 356 / 912) - Pair............................... $50.00/$60.00
Open for Large Cylinders (411 / 914) - Pair.................................... $ 60.00
Valve Guides Installed (411 / 914) - Each....................................... $ 10.00
Valve Guides Installed (includes guides) -Each............................... $ 10.00
Seats Finished (3 angle) - Each...................................................... $ 10.00
Bead Blast - Each.......................................................................... $ 20.00
Large Valve Seats Installed (411 / 914) (356 / 912) - Each................ $30.00/$35.00
*Complete reconditioning available, Price depends on type of valves used.
Surface - each............................................................................... $ 20.00
Open for Larger Cylinders - Each.................................................. $ 25.00
Valve Guides (includes guides) - Each............................................. $ 12.00
Finish Seats (3 angle) - Each......................................................... $ 10.00
Recondition Complete (no new valves) - Each.................................. $105.00

[Mueller]

QUOTE (shaggy @ Feb 27 2006, 05:11 PM)

good point...the last thing i need is another screwed up engine (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) so...prices generally, and time to do it? id really like something local but if it cant be done i'd ship, being that i dont have a choice. -jim

check out the middle of the page for pricing ideas for the valve guides...

rimco pricing

I've used a local to me shop, no idea of how good or bad rimco is....

[toon1]

For $20 I bought a valve spring compressor at Sears. It is a little awkward to use on the T4 heads but it works. You can get the valves out and inspect the guides. The exaust guides on mine where shot, on thing I noticed was there was carbon buildup on top of the guide on the spring side. Shine a light in there you should be able to see it.

I sent mine out localy, $15 to replace the guide and regrind the seat.

Do a search on the web for Rimco they are in LA area and VW and T4 is all they do. All the prices are on the site.

[toon1]

DANG!! you guy's are fast

[Dr. Roger]

QUOTE (shaggy @ Feb 27 2006, 05:05 PM)

i really dont wanna send the heads out im trying to keep the rebuild price as low as possible so that i can buy more expensive parts know ne one in town that can do head work, jason? no i havent measured the bore or stroke i dont have the necessary tools Dr. can you really use those? it isnt to abrassive on the heads? thank -jim

abrasive is the idea. there are many types of wire these wheels contain.

i like the softest wire i can find, which ends up almost polishing the combustions chambers. which, as you know, when your combustion chambers are polished there's less chance of carbon attaching to it.

I've done many valve jobs but never a seat replacement. i'd farm that out to a pro given the reputation of 2.0's seats dropping like hot potatoes when done incorrectly.

we had a great auto shop in high school and i used the heck out of it. rebuilt 2 motorcycle and one SBC engines. of course the mandatory lawnmower or two.... =-)

[jasons]

QUOTE (shaggy @ Feb 27 2006, 04:05 PM)

i really dont wanna send the heads out im trying to keep the rebuild price as low as possible so that i can buy more expensive parts know ne one in town that can do head work, jason? no i havent measured the bore or stroke i dont have the necessary tools Dr. can you really use those? it isnt to abrassive on the heads? thank -jim

Let me talk to my buddy who is a manager at Karls Custom and find out who they use and maybe he can help you out.

You can measure the stroke with a ruler. Just put the jug back on, put the piston at bottom dead center and measure the distance from the top of the jug. Likewise, just measure the diameter of the inside hole of the jug.
That will answer our questions. Maybe tomorrow I can come by and take a look at it. I was pretty busy this weekend.

[shaggy]

ok so the measurement dont have to be really percise huh?

ok, well im off to tutoring now but when i get back ill measure it for you

who at karl's do you know?

paul?

bob?(i think that his name)

im in there a lot looking for parts
what 1? 42nd and indian?

ill pm you the measurements later tonight

-jim

[toon1]

If your looking to get the carbon out of the chambers oven cleaner works amazingly well.....

[Flat VW]

QUOTE (toon1 @ Feb 27 2006, 07:19 PM)

If your looking to get the carbon out of the chambers oven cleaner works amazingly well.....

But what temp. does one set the oven to? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[jasons]

QUOTE (shaggy @ Feb 27 2006, 06:15 PM)

ok so the measurement dont have to be really percise huh? ok, well im off to tutoring now but when i get back ill measure it for you who at karl's do you know? paul? bob?(i think that his name) im in there a lot looking for parts what 1? 42nd and indian? ill pm you the measurements later tonight -jim

Do you mean Robbie? Thats the owners(Karls) son. I do know him, but the guy I know really well is the manager of the Mesa store. Tom is his name, he lives in our area too.


The measurements only have to be within a mm. Like 94mm for the bore and 71mm for the stroke will be pretty obvious.

[Twystd1]

I wouldn't use oven cleaner for the combustion chambers.

Going by bad memory here... HHHmmmmm

Sodium Hydroxide and/or potassium chloride is usually one of the constitiuents of oven cleaner..........

It eats aluminum and most non ferrous metals pretty dam fast. Especially if it's hot. And mixed with water. (hot tank stripping for instance)



So if ya get some stuck in the valve guide. The guide will probably be useless. .. It will eat it.

And if some of it gets under the seat.. it will keep eating the aluminum.

SO:

Since ya have to take it to a machine shop anyway to have the seats, valves, guides, rocker adjusters and the combustion chamber checked for cracks and concentricity and just general shits and grins...

LET THEM DO IT............

They have the stuff to do it without hurting anything...

And there going to do it anyway.

No matter how much you clean it. At least my machinist does.

My .02

Twystd1