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> PMS bar mount failure, the picture
Trekkor
post Apr 24 2006, 01:43 PM
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Here it is. Total seperation (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Let's talk about it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chatsmiley.gif)


KT


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Andyrew
post Apr 24 2006, 01:47 PM
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Ouch!

looks like bad weld penetration right there...
two pieces of metal should never break right on the weld.. if it was welded correctly....
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Part Pricer
post Apr 24 2006, 01:51 PM
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So we can be sure that we're looking at the same thing, this is the same mount right?



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LvSteveH
post Apr 24 2006, 01:56 PM
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They are way too big to be having stuff like this happen, and on multiple occasions no less. It's so much better to over engineer and over build from a safety and liability standpoint. Not to mention reputation.

In this case, the execution is very poor. They probably welded it and ground it clean for appearance. The initial weld didn't penetrate, and they cleaned off the only part that had any strength to it. On a structural application, I would be very reluctant to grind a weld for the sake of appearance. To me there is nothing prettier than a nice, clean, properly laid weld. That entire seam should have been welded on one side, with at least 1" welds spaced 1" apart on the other side. Personally, I'd weld it on both sides if there is room.

There is absolutely no excuse for that.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/spank.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)
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Trekkor
post Apr 24 2006, 02:01 PM
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Nope, the other one.

KT
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john rogers
post Apr 24 2006, 02:03 PM
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Did both sides rip loose. That is the first one of his new ones I have seem fail as a lot of the vintage racers are using them and no failures so far.
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Trekkor
post Apr 24 2006, 02:05 PM
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here's the bar from the website

KT


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Series9
post Apr 24 2006, 02:08 PM
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Do you know the year yours was made?

Mine is the 'newer model', but I do keep an eye on it.
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Series9
post Apr 24 2006, 02:14 PM
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I have a couple of ideas to reinforce it. I may need to do so on mine someday.

If you send it to me, I'll fix it for you for free.
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nine14cats
post Apr 24 2006, 02:15 PM
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Trekkor bought this mount from me. It is the new style that Jim Patrick sold to me to cure my previous issues with the older bar.

The failure looks the same as my original failure.

Sorry Trek..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

As John says, this is the first of the new style mounts that I have heard about failing.

It's hard to believe that it would be overstressed with the torque of your 2.0/2.2 liter. Something else caused this.

Bill P.
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iamchappy
post Apr 24 2006, 02:18 PM
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Those quick mounts have had a history of breaking.
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lapuwali
post Apr 24 2006, 02:20 PM
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Gee, that looks like I welded it...

It's strange that there's even a weld there. A stronger, and cheaper, way to fabricate that part would be to have the whole part other than the bar made as one pressed piece. This would be very unlikely to break, and even if the welds to attach it to the bar broke, they'd be resting on the bar. Lots of clunking noises, but nothing would fall down.
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Trekkor
post Apr 24 2006, 02:26 PM
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I don't know the year. But it is a total failure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

More pics...


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Engman
post Apr 24 2006, 02:28 PM
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Paging Mike Z.

Paging Mike Z.




M
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Series9
post Apr 24 2006, 02:30 PM
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There no penetration in that weld.

Seriously, send it to me. I'd like to give it a try.
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Trekkor
post Apr 24 2006, 02:34 PM
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I've been looking foward to Mikey's pleasant and dignified response to this since it happened.

Pretty sad when you are under a car and see this and the first thing that pops into your head is "Zois". ( in the Seinfeld voice, just like when he says, "Newman" )


KT


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Trekkor
post Apr 24 2006, 02:37 PM
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Thanks Joe, I'll keep you in mind. really nice of you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

My buddy might just be willing to drive up with his truck mounted welding rig and fix it on site. : welder:

It has to come out of the car to be repaired properly, I can see that very clearly.


KT
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LvSteveH
post Apr 24 2006, 02:38 PM
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My laptop screen isn't the best, but it looks like it was welded on the inside. A nice filet weld around there should be super strong, someone just had no idea what they were doing. That's one of the dangerous things about Mig, it can look ok, and have no strength to it. When you are welding, it's plain as day when you get good penetration if you know what to look for. I don't think it needs to be beefed up so much as done properly.

on edit: I'd like to see them use a little thicker plate too, if we're being picky.
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Series9
post Apr 24 2006, 02:39 PM
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I just emailed pictures to Jim.

We'll see what happens.
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Series9
post Apr 24 2006, 02:42 PM
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Besides just welding, it should be stress relieved in an oven.

I have access to an oven that could do the job.
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