V8 or six conversion. Options

[914rat]

Although I'm listed as a newbie I am not new to 914's.I have 5.I currently am working on a 1971 .My 5 lug conversion is half complete[front] and sway bar installed.I have decided to go with a V8 instead of a porsche 6 cyl.It appears less expensive to build a V8 car.Has anyone dealt with Reddawg racing on a V8 conversion.

[Brad Roberts]

I have not dealt with them personally, but I know I never will.

I dealt with 3-4 customers of theirs after the royal f-ing they received.

Stay away. Stick with a name that we know: Renegade or the guy's from AZ.

I support Renegade because of their continued support of the 914 as a conversion platform. I have no reason to doubt the people in AZ know what they are doing.


B

[byndbad914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) steer clear of reddawg. Renegade seems to be the best option for a bolt-in setup that consistently works. A link in case you aren't familiar with them - they are in Vegas.

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/

[drive-ability]

I have done business with Renegade (Scott) and have only good things to say about there commitment to customer satisfaction. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[turbo914v8]

I have done business with Renegade (Scott) and have only good things to say about there commitment to customer satisfaction. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Me too what he said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[914-8]

Don't do Renegade unless you have a lot of time on your hands. You'll get Scott on the phone and he won't stop talking!

Seriously, 914s and V8s really seem to be the passion of the guys over at Renegade. Really into the cars and very willing to help people out.

[Sammy]

V8 instead of porsche flat 6 = big mistake, IMO.
I've owned and driven a V8 914, and I much prefer the flat six.
Others will disagree.

[Carlitos Way]

I'm not sure if this is going to be OT... but you might also want to consider the Subaru conversion. Renegade has a kit for it... and you might find it meets and/or exceeds your expectations.

[914-8]

V8 instead of porsche flat 6 = big mistake, IMO.
I've owned and driven a V8 914, and I much prefer the flat six.
Others will disagree.

Who built your 8, and what were the specs on it?

[Rand]

V8 instead of porsche flat 6 = big mistake, IMO.
I've owned and driven a V8 914, and I much prefer the flat six.

Please elaborate.

[914-8]

Here's the thing.

I've owned lots of 914s and 911s, almost continually for 24 years, and I've liked them all.

But as far as the driving experience, I like my current 914-8 the best out of any of them.

But - I've seen and driven many 914-8s over the years, and wouldn't want to own the vast majority of them.

That's because there's a huge difference between a pro built, well thought out, well engineered 8 and a home hack job, drop in an 8 and go car.

Doing an 8 right, IMO, is NOT a trivial exercise. The car may not look highly modified on the outside, but to do it right, there's a ton of time, money, sound engineering and craftsmanship that has to go in it. IMO, to have a really nice driving and fun 8, you have to, at a minimum:

- Have an 8 that is built to the characteristics of a lightweight sportscar.
- Have a transmission built to take it and work for a long time (IMO a 915 or 930).
- Have that transmission regeared to work correctly with the V8.
- Have the chassis stiffened.
- Have the entire braking system upgraded.
- Have a well engineered cooling system so that it doesn't look like a hack job and the car runs cool under all conditions.
- Work out something with the body so that appropriate sized wheels and tires can be fitted.
- Fit a suspension system that makes sense and works with the car.

Then you have to execute all of the above so it doesn't look like a total hack job and is pleasant to look at and work on.

When you do that, you have a car that is really a lot of fun to own and to drive.

The thing is, it likely wouldn't cost a whole lot less than a decent 6 conversion.

914s are fun because they tend to be "tinkerer's cars," owned by people who like to work on and modify their cars. 914 V8s are doubly so. From what I can see, most V8 conversions are done by tinkerers. Nothing wrong with that at all - people are having fun and that's what this is all about. But the result is a backyard creation that I would rarely want to own, personally.

I guess what I'm saying is it's hard to lump all V8 914s together, there is a huge difference between various examples. Turn your car over to Renegade along with a check for $50K, wait a while ,and you'll get back an awesome car that will be a blast to drive.

Take a stock 914, hack in a Camaro radiator and some fans, drop in a truck 350 and hit the road, and you'll have a rolling nightmare that won't be much fun to drive.

I'd guess that 90% of V8 914s on the road fall in between those two extremes, with more landing towards the latter. How much fun the car is to drive and own is more a function of where it falls on the spectrum, moreso than the number of cylinders it has.

[Brad Roberts]

I dont know the guy above my post, but he shares my same view on what we see in most conversion cars.

I dont own one because I cant afford one. This means, I cannot do it right with my current funds. I have NO interest in "hacking" one together (something I could do in a weekend)



B

[Andyrew]

Brad has no interest in my car


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

jk

914-8 has the beautiful black 914 gt look (with a v8 obviously)
And is my opinion of the best street 914 v8.

There are lots of guys with really nice race 914's...

Mine is a mix... A teenager on a budjet looking for fun on the way.

And.. I agree with 914-8..

One thing... THe type of v8 really makes the car.. Putting in a camshaft that doesnt kick in fully till 3k really helps give the car a drivable characteristic... Tq is fun, to a point.. But who wants to roast the tires at every corner, when you can pull out of a corner with the tq, and scream past anyone with the hp?


To answer your question.. Rennegade is the way to do it right. but if your mix and match you can get it cheaper.
Reddawg is so crappy... I dont think they are in buisness anymore.. their flagship car (yellow one) was sent to rennegade to "fix"... there was more problems with the car than I want to mention.. I would never drive it for fear of killing myself.


Can you weld? Can you solder? Can you cut? Can you fabricate?

You can do it for less than 3k. I'd budget 6k for a nice one.
I did mine for 1.5k... I've put 3k into the car since then. and plan on 3k for another engine...

[Brad Roberts]

Andrew,

you know better than anyone I support all the young adults into our cars no matter what it looks like or drives like. Not everyone can afford the big money cars. I have pushed and pushed for decent conversion cars. The 914 already has a black eye with people on the street. Why add another piece of shit to the puzzle? The only way to change the perception is too build and display nice cars. People dont throw out the POS comments when they see a 16-20 Y.O. kid built the car. Not 30+ y.o adults.


B

[Andyrew]

We'll making more money now.. the car is turning from a POS to a nice POS track car... Its got some big money parts on it now...

Which was my idea... I might have to replace some stuff, or do things over again once, or twice... or thrice..

But I was able to drive it and enjoy it...

Andrew

[byndbad914]

or you can just hack the living shit out of it


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

honestly, whether you do a six or eight, there are hacked cars and nice cars and that is up to the builder. Someone capable of a nice 6 is equally capable of a nice 8, and the same for a hacker - hack one you'll hack the other. Any good conversion requires skill on the converter's part.

What I like about the 8 is this - 300HP is so easy to make and so little stress on a SBC v. a 6cyl. And WAAAAYYYY cheaper (crate motors are better than that). So, they last longer and are more "driveable". If you want a brute amount of power (anything past 350HP) you can pretty much forget about any 6cyl unless you step up to turbo(s) and/or at least 3.8L - which I suspect would require quite a bit of skill and cutting to fit and way more money.

And a 300HP 914 is a fast car by most people's standards. At 525HP I hit over 60mph in 1st in under 4 seconds - I can't grab 2nd fast enough launching it at the track entrance. Far too much power to be driveable, but fun as hell at the track.

[turboman808]

just to be a dick.....


Why would you want to do a flat 6 or v8 over a wrx/sti conversion? Seems to me to be the best option for a 914. Light weight, relieable, powerful and cheap. Where is the downside? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[914-8]

or you can just hack the living shit out of it


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

honestly, whether you do a six or eight, there are hacked cars and nice cars and that is up to the builder. Someone capable of a nice 6 is equally capable of a nice 8, and the same for a hacker - hack one you'll hack the other. Any good conversion requires skill on the converter's part.

True, but I think a 6 is a bit easier (and thus a bit more hack proof), because it's an engine the car was originally designed to accomodate. So it is more plug and play with a lot less "issues" than putting in a water-cooled V8 that the car was never designed to accomodate.

So V8 conversions seem to me to more often exhibit backyard engineering hijinks than porsche 6 conversions do. There's just a lot more areas for the tinkerer to exhibit his fabrication and engineering "skeeelz" and ingenuity!

A V8 conversion, for example, provides an infinite number of opportunities for the creative use of PVC piping, NPT brass plumbing fittings, torches, homemade bracketry and engine and transmission mountings, expandable foam, JB Weld, etc. etc. etc. that the flat 6 conversion guy is deprived of.

[914-8]

just to be a dick.....


Why would you want to do a flat 6 or v8 over a wrx/sti conversion? Seems to me to be the best option for a 914. Light weight, relieable, powerful and cheap. Where is the downside? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

"There's no replacement for displacement!"

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Joe Bob]

I would suggest riding in a few conversions...let the seat of your ass be the judge....