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> the last of my parts, heads are done
DanT
post Apr 13 2007, 07:09 PM
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finally got the last of my motor parts back from the machine shop. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

heads are now totally rebuilt and ready for action.
new SS valves, new seats, new guides, new HD springs, new retainers and keepers.
new flycut. no more cracks....only had one small one after 160K miles

hard to believe that these heads had 160K miles on them, to look at them now...all nice and shiney... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

here you go with some pics.

rebuild of the 2056 will get serious this weekend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

a few pics of my other engine stuff

new KB 96mm flat top pistions, rods balaned and checked, new small end bushings.
Original Mahle cylinders bored and honed to 96mm

and the last pic is what the heads looked like about 2 months ago when I pulled them off the motor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)


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Jake Raby
post Apr 13 2007, 08:15 PM
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Look good
BUT please don't use those stock retainers and springs.

I also don't see evidence that the keepers were ground as they seem to be touching each other at both ends of the half moon..

Thats all minor stuff, but it can make a huge difference when going to any camshaft thats not 100% stock.
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doper
post Apr 13 2007, 09:11 PM
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Be cautius (sp) ... Keith Black pistons arent all their cracked up to be .... they tend to break the top of the piston off ... trust me .. I have more two cylinder air cooled experience then most of you combined ...
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Jake Raby
post Apr 13 2007, 10:54 PM
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doper,
I have used HUNDREDS of sets of the KB pistons and currently have 130K on the set in my TIV daily driver.

I have pushed the KB pistons betond the realm they should ever be effective in and have NEVER had an RPM related failure. In fact we have only seen two piston failures with the KBs, both times the skirt clearance was incorrect and thats what started the inital issue. I make 200+ reliale HP with these pistons all the time and would RATHER USE THEM instead of a JE for 90% of my race engines!

You are a newbie, your title says so... Newbies don't come in sputing off their experience most of the time.

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I have more two cylinder air cooled experience then most of you combined ...

Ummn, a Type 4 isn't a two cylinder- guess what, other experience doesn't pertain to this engine... The guys that think it does cost themselves the most money through stupid mistakes.

But you did choose the correct user name :-)
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Twystd1
post Apr 13 2007, 11:32 PM
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Now about that dual exhaust...........

C
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Bleyseng
post Apr 14 2007, 08:24 AM
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I have to agree with Jake, junk the stock retainers, keepers etc...if class rules allow it go with HD valve springs or atleast new ones!
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Jake Raby
post Apr 14 2007, 10:08 AM
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Hell, if you don't want to lose your investment you better change those retainers even if the rules DON'T allow it!
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So.Cal.914
post Apr 14 2007, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE(Twystd1 @ Apr 13 2007, 10:32 PM) *

Now about that dual exhaust...........

C


Don't you mean duel expansion chambers? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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McMark
post Apr 14 2007, 10:26 AM
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KBs have to be set up differently than other piston setups because of the Hypereutectic aspect. The rings get more heat and expand more so you need increased ring gap. Visit the KB site for a ton more info. If someone lost piston tops, my first thought is 'incorrect setup'.
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Cap'n Krusty
post Apr 14 2007, 05:48 PM
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" .. I have more two cylinder air cooled experience then most of you combined ..."

Oh? How about 47 years, 34 of them professionally ............................ ? And that's just me. The Cap'n
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DanT
post Apr 15 2007, 02:18 PM
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here are a couple of shots of the crank with rods intalled and crank/rods sitting in case half.
Need to take the original cam to the machine shop to have the cam gear removed and indexed for the new cam....I did not notice when disassembling the motor that the cam was rivited to the cam gear, not bolted like the aftermarket Webb cam...
Oh well, at least we are making progress.


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DanT
post Apr 15 2007, 02:19 PM
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and


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Bleyseng
post Apr 15 2007, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Apr 14 2007, 04:48 PM) *

" .. I have more two cylinder air cooled experience then most of you combined ..."

Oh? How about 47 years, 34 of them professionally ............................ ? And that's just me. The Cap'n


Ya got me beat! I have only been doing this Aircooled crap for 40 years.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)


Dan, looks good. Did you have the rods modified with the oil groove?
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Pat Garvey
post Apr 15 2007, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Apr 13 2007, 10:54 PM) *

doper,
I have used HUNDREDS of sets of the KB pistons and currently have 130K on the set in my TIV daily driver.

I have pushed the KB pistons betond the realm they should ever be effective in and have NEVER had an RPM related failure. In fact we have only seen two piston failures with the KBs, both times the skirt clearance was incorrect and thats what started the inital issue. I make 200+ reliale HP with these pistons all the time and would RATHER USE THEM instead of a JE for 90% of my race engines!

You are a newbie, your title says so... Newbies don't come in sputing off their experience most of the time.

QUOTE
I have more two cylinder air cooled experience then most of you combined ...

Ummn, a Type 4 isn't a two cylinder- guess what, other experience doesn't pertain to this engine... The guys that think it does cost themselves the most money through stupid mistakes.

But you did choose the correct user name :-)


I can say this....My company sponsored John Force for several years and, as such, I was in his pits for lots of rebuilds. There were weekends that the KB motors were piled up, with cracked blocks, but never saw a piston/cylinder failure (probably were some, just could be there all the time). Oh, I forgot to metion - these were running on nitro methane! Not sure, but it COULD make a little difference. My eyes are still runny & I can't hear squat, but what an experience! What!? What!?
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jwalters
post Apr 16 2007, 04:21 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I see what you mean , doper. You are referring to running on only two cylinders vs. four due to failures. This was meant instead of number of actual years and not some other aircooled engine. I am correct in my assumption, no??

Do not let the blow hards get you down. Nobody has the 'right' on here to tell you off and tell you to shut up because you are a nooby. This place is supposed to be informative and a good place to make jokes, assumptions, friends,etc etc. But not everyone does that here. The best thing is to just shrug it off and not worry about it at all. You will find that certain individuals would rather start a pissing match than have fun and kid around and such. But, I see you have already 'seen' this.

Newbie you may be, but by all means, share your experiences with the rest of us who are interested. I find, personally, that there is always something to learn from another -good, the bad, and the ugly...

7000+ other members may want to know - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

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jwalters
post Apr 16 2007, 04:23 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Looking good Dan. Who did your machining?? If I may ask?? Think you will have it running soon??
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jwalters
post Apr 16 2007, 04:27 PM
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Hey Pat, Did JF use KB cast pistons in the top fueler??

Just trying to see the connection , if one, of KB's for a 914 vs. top fuel.....

I know of a couple of builders who have moved away from KB's - All I get from them is 'weird' failures. Whatever that means, they tend to keep secrets to themselves rather than share...

BTW - doper is a cool name -- (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Apr 16 2007, 04:51 PM
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Those that set a KB piston up like a conventional forged piston will have different failures, generally these are the closed minded "Been doing this for 30 years" crowd.

I'll take a set of KB over a set of JEs any day. drive 23K miles on one oil change and see how little oil the KBs consume over that peiod and you'll be hooked as well.. At 100K my engine only had 5% leak down across the board- thats what a KB can do when PROPERLY set up.

FYI- The engine in my 912E was the FIRST engine we ever set up with KBs, that was 130+K ago. It's hard to argue with direct results and data acquired from field testing.
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Eric_Shea
post Apr 16 2007, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE
Nobody has the 'right' on here to tell you off and tell you to shut up because you are a nooby.


Yup... regardless, we be newbie friendly here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)
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DanT
post Apr 21 2007, 11:56 PM
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OK, if that is all settled....back to some motor stuff.


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