Outing a ripoff, A popular member here is a plagerist! Options

[IronHillRestorations]

So am I a bad guy for outing a ripoff, if the guy doing the ripping is popular here?

There are least two products that I know of, what or who is next?

Do I spill the beans?

I remember not too long ago, no one, NO ONE could say a bad word about Bradholio, without being chastised.

I don't want to be shunned for shedding the light here, but this stuff makes me mad! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[markb]

If someone were about to rip me off, I'd want to know about it, whether he is popular or not. Truth is truth.

[Dr Evil]

So long as you state facts and not opinion I see no problem with bringing forth your accusations.

[lotus_65]

you can't resolve i privately?

it's been just a short time since the club exploded you know, & i'm not sure this forum is right.

maybe start throwing the soil in the sandbox and if peer pressure doesn't fix it there, then work another forum?

my 2¢ and prolly worth about that much! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[So.Cal.914]

So long as you state facts and not opinion I see no problem with bringing forth your accusations.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Please do make sure you have all your duck in a row. Is the product exactly the

same or simular. If the product was reengineered to 'Make it better', and is, thats

America. But if it is a rip off I would like to know.

[ConeDodger]

So long as you state facts and not opinion I see no problem with bringing forth your accusations.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Please do make sure you have all your duck in a row. Is the product exactly the

same or simular. If the product was reengineered to 'Make it better', and is, thats

America. But if it is a rip off I would like to know.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I agree as well. It is one thing for Mr. Stromberg to copy and paste entire sections of someones website onto his own in order to sell a similar product. That is plagerism. But it is entirely different to sell the same product, a product that is maybe not as good but cheaper, or one that is better. That is competition.
I would walk softly on that...

[SLITS]

Send he/she/it a private message expressing your feelings about what they do and leave it off the board.

or

Just refer to the product(s) and just mention they are copies, not improved, of someones' product. Leave names out .... we're smart enough to figure it out.

[IronHillRestorations]

Same exact product. Photocopies of the exact same instructions created by the guy who was ripped off. They even have his (the guy ripped off) initials and date on the instructions!

Years ago I would have called this out without hesitation. But the internet has created a unique atmosphere where jerks, ripoffs, crooks, and shady dealers get insulated and protected.

I know this particular individual has done some entirely fair and square deals, and helped guys out. That doesn't give you the right to steal from somone else though.

[cooltimes]

PK,
When you have to ask before telling what you believe to be a truth, the venue of this or other forums has become tainted.

Your reputation, which in my opinion is pristine and above reproach, is always at stake and there will be those who don't know or care about squat who will dilute your comments with their own opposition when you have something to say.

Tell it like you see it shows character and not someone always wanting to just please the crowd.
Just my own opinion but it is mine.
Mike Cooley

So am I a bad guy for outing a ripoff, if the guy doing the ripping is popular here?

There are least two products that I know of, what or who is next?

Do I spill the beans?

I remember not too long ago, no one, NO ONE could say a bad word about Bradholio, without being chastised.

I don't want to be shunned for shedding the light here, but this stuff makes me mad! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[ConeDodger]

Same exact product. Photocopies of the exact same instructions created by the guy who was ripped off. They even have his (the guy ripped off) initials and date on the instructions!

Years ago I would have called this out without hesitation. But the internet has created a unique atmosphere where jerks, ripoffs, crooks, and shady dealers get insulated and protected.

I know this particular individual has done some entirely fair and square deals, and helped guys out. That doesn't give you the right to steal from somone else though.

Well there you go... That is definition plagerism.

[BMXerror]

I think you have to say what you have to say. This country's free speach lately has been wildly supressed, not by the governement or big business directly, but by peer pressure. The last few years, everyone is terrified to say anything that might be unpopular. It needs to change.
As mentioned before, I think you need to state the facts of your experiences, and leave your opinions and suspicions out of it. I would try to solve the matter privately if possible, but it depends on the nature of the problem whether you can do that. Bottom line, if you speak up, there's gonna be a lot of people who don't like it because "that's mean". Some people would rather be silently raped by a businessman than have someone speak up and disrupt their little coccoon. Anyone who's been screwed by ANYONE before will thank you for the warning. My $.02
Mark D.

[Project 6]

Why ask us? It's a free world. Post it and let the chips fly. If you feel like it, do it here or in the sandbox. I'm sure the admins will comment if it's out of line.

As to Bradhole, even prior to the meltdown, there were posts whacking him, Mike Z and other admins.

No one is immune. Go for it.

Political Correctiveness is for whimps.

[Rusty]

Why ask us? It's a free world. Post it and let the chips fly. If you feel like it, do it here or in the sandbox. I'm sure the admins will comment if it's out of line.

As to Bradhole, even prior to the meltdown, there were posts whacking him, Mike Z and other admins.

No one is immune. Go for it.

Political Correctiveness is for whimps.

Yep... Mike Z even deserved it a few times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Hey Perry - I know you're a responsible guy. If you have all your ducks in a row, post your concern.

[jd74914]

Yep, lets hear it . . . plagiarism isn't cool.

I agree with the above; if its been redesigned/changed but bears resemblance, thats one thing. But straight-up copying the original is wrong.

I for one would like to know what it is, just so if I ever was to be in a position that I needed this product I could buy it from the original creator (Slits has the right way to go about it in his #2 option).

[Eric_Shea]

Years ago I would have called this out without hesitation. But the internet has created a unique atmosphere where jerks, ripoffs, crooks, and shady dealers get insulated and protected.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

the venue of this or other forums has become tainted

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I take exception to those comments. I rarely weigh in here in "Admin" capacity. This group of admins that have landed in your lap are some of the best and fairest I've ever worked with and yes, I work with a "lot" of moderators and admins.

Some areas of the Internet maybe, however; we do not harbor jerks, rip-offs, crooks, and shady dealers and never will. Our venue hasn't become "tainted" simply because someone isn't clear about what they should or should not post (generally speaking) online. This topic has come up before with classified transactions that haven't gone the way the seller or buyer have liked, which, I "believe" is why Perry posted in this instance. Those conversations are best resolved privately. I've personally gotten into lengthy discussions with sellers who were selling used items at prices over retail. The bottom line was; this is a big family and we don't treat our family members this way.

Perry... As Paul suggests; do you have your ducks in a row? If so, I'd say "let'er rip". If you don't, it will play out here. If you do, it will play out here.

Final note: Many of the vendors here do what they do for the love of the vehicle and the family/camaraderie here. If they added up the hours in their garage/shop into the margin of the goods or service they sell, they would be bankrupt. To have someone come along and plagiarize their designs and offerings is basically stealing from those who have come to help us.

[brp986s]

Perhaps this "plagiarist" has permission from the originator to market his products. There could be other scenarios. You might want to confirm your suspicions with the "plagiarist" before making the accusations public.

[J P Stein]

If you have something to say, say it...just make sure you have your ducks in a row.

For instance, the other day someone was slagging a guy for "ripping off" Rich Johnson's engine mount. That mount was originally made by George Vellious who was /is apparently a lousy business man (his 915 rear cover is another example...now made by Wevo) and Rich made some much needed improvements (as did Wevo).
Both of these vendors now supply a better part in a timely mannerand George is SOL. We all want our mice dead, eh?

Unless there is a copyright/patent for a product there is a risk of....ah....copies.

That said, Perry, you have enuff credibility in the 914 community to be able to speak your mind.

[SLITS]

It's a free country (last I checked) so speak your mind. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.


brp986s ,

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[stateofidleness]

not taking sides but im about to make a few member purchases and more in the future and i'd just be curious what the product was..

i don't like to get (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

[cooltimes]

Adminstrator or not has no bearing on what another can say as long as rules are adhered to. However, If you want to quote a comment made by another person, please don't cut off a part of the complete line to suit your own opinion.
This is the exact quotation:

"When you have to ask before telling what you believe to be a truth, the venue of this or other forums has become tainted."

If you want to lock out all others who have a different opinion from those expressed as cordial, just come out and say so instead of waving a badge as Admin.

Years ago I would have called this out without hesitation. But the internet has created a unique atmosphere where jerks, ripoffs, crooks, and shady dealers get insulated and protected.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

the venue of this or other forums has become tainted

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I take exception to those comments. I rarely get weigh in here in "Admin" capacity. This group of admins that have landed in your lap are some of the best and fairest I've ever worked with and yes, I work with a "lot" of moderators and admins.

Some areas of the Internet maybe, however; we do not harbor jerks, rip-offs, crooks, and shady dealers and never will. Our venue hasn't become "tainted" simply because someone isn't clear about what they should or should not post (generally speaking) online. This topic has come up before with classified transactions that haven't gone the way the seller or buyer have liked, which, I "believe" is why Perry posted in this instance. Those conversations are best resolved privately. I've personally gotten into lengthy discussions with sellers who were selling used items at prices over retail. The bottom line was; this is a big family and we don't treat our family members this way.

Perry... As Paul suggests; do you have your ducks in a row? If so, I'd say "let'er rip". If you don't, it will play out here. If you do, it will play out here.

Final note: Many of the vendors here do what they do for the love of the vehicle and the family/camaraderie here. If they added up the hours in their garage/shop into the margin of the goods or service they sell, they would be bankrupt. To have someone come along and plagiarize their designs and offerings is basically stealing from those who have come to help us.