Please School me on Engines Options

[mambodave]

1973 1.7.

I think I want to keep a 4.. because of weight, etc, and honestly everyone is doing sixes, so thinking about building or buying a bad ass 4....

Whos running high HP 2.0 to 2.2? What carb and or exhaust set up are you running. What are the potential differences in a 2.0 and 2.2 (baring size)

What am I going to run into droping in a "new" 4, (what else will I need to change?) Any threads on upgrading a 4? I see tons on upgrading to a 6.

And who's crating and selling them? (if anyone)
Any help is greatly appreciated.


Dave

[G e o r g e]

Here for turn key 4's

here for good info

more type 4 talk

[G e o r g e]

another turnkey spot

[carr914]

1st of all replace that center carb with the long runners. That will make a big difference.

If you want a high HP 4 with reliablity, just get a Raby. And he's not that far from you.

T.C.

[G e o r g e]

another place to shop

[G e o r g e]

and yet 1 more place to shop

[G e o r g e]

the only shop that i can comment on is Jake's

all thumbs up here

do a search their are more shops, and check on recommendations/ripoffs

[mambodave]

Thank you very much George!

[number6]

1973 1.7.

I think I want to keep a 4.. because of weight, etc, and honestly everyone is doing sixes, so thinking about building or buying a bad ass 4....

Whos running high HP 2.0 to 2.2? What carb and or exhaust set up are you running. What are the potential differences in a 2.0 and 2.2 (baring size)

What am I going to run into droping in a "new" 4, (what else will I need to change?) Any threads on upgrading a 4? I see tons on upgrading to a 6.

And who's crating and selling them? (if anyone)
Any help is greatly appreciated.


Dave

Dave, what sort of power are you after?

Just a plug here (and I hope no one objects, because it's actually relevant to the discussion): My recently-rebuilt 2.0 L-jet fuel injected motor is for sale through Camp914 (camp914.com; Craig is a member here). I recently had a chance to pick up a 3.2, so that's why the motor is for sale. As funny as it sounds, it was actually a tough choice for me, because, like you, I appreciate the lighter weight = more nimbleness of a 4. Quite noticeable difference between the two when driven back-to-back. That, and I know my motor is completely proven/100% reliable.

Anyhow, the idea behind my rebuild was to have a solid platform to get decent power w/o over boring and sacrificing fuel economy and longevity...AND staying within a reasonable budget. With the L-jet, the motor dynoed at ~115hp at the crank. That was before going with a Triad exhaust, which I'm sure added power (quite noticeable by-the-seat power & torque gain). The plan was to next jump to an aftermarket fuel injection system, something like from CB Performance, coupled with MSD ignition, which, from what I've gathered, makes for a SIGNIFICANT gain. Next, I was going to go with a lightened flywheel. And (keeping budget in mind) end with (maybe) a cooling system upgrade, something like the 911 fan or DTM, both of which draws less power from the crank, I believe (I've been told the 911 setup robs only 10 horse vs 20 or so for stock system - no first hand experience to confirm). There's gain to be had from more efficient cooling, too. All said and done, the motor should end up making 140, if not more, horsepower. In a car with a curb weight of 2100lbs, that's A LOT of fun! /End plug (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

For ultimate Type IV performance, as others have suggested, I think the consensus is Raby. I've always wanted one!

Good luck, whichever choice you make.

Cheers,
-duc

[Todd Enlund]

1973 1.7.

I think I want to keep a 4.. because of weight, etc, and honestly everyone is doing sixes, so thinking about building or buying a bad ass 4....

Whos running high HP 2.0 to 2.2? What carb and or exhaust set up are you running. What are the potential differences in a 2.0 and 2.2 (baring size)

What am I going to run into droping in a "new" 4, (what else will I need to change?) Any threads on upgrading a 4? I see tons on upgrading to a 6.

And who's crating and selling them? (if anyone)
Any help is greatly appreciated.


Dave

What's your budget?

Stage I - dump the progressive Weber and get either D-Jet or a pair of 40 IDFs.
Stage II - build your 1.7 into a 1911 with a set of 96mm pistons/cylinders.
Stage III - Find a 2.0 and refresh it, or build it into a 2056
Stage IV - Build a 2270 with aftermarket FI or a pair of 44 IDFs.
Stage V - Trade $$ for HP direct from Jake.

I'm on the slow train direct to Stage IV... building a 2058 as I can acquire parts. Mine will be a 2058 because the crank that I got is a 78mm rather than the more common 78.4 mm stroker.

[LarryR]

Good decision to stay with the 4. I have a friend who has been dealing with fat performance for a with his lola (it runs a type IV) and they have given great service. I have seen nothing but good things posted about Jake. When I am ready to start buying engine parts I will probably deal with Jake since he contributes a lot of tech info on this site.

BTW I think the 2270 is the way to go for great perfomance and reliability.

[McMark]

2056s can be TONS of fun. They are NOTHING like a stock motor. A 2270 is definitely a step up, but don't think that if you decide to go with a 2056 that you're settling for a sub-par motor. I've often wondered if I'll ever decide to build myself a 2270 since I'm having so much with with my 2056.

[orange914]

how much do you want to spend? how much of the build do you want to do? do you want to stay air cooled, somewhat stock or will you entertain a completely different engine?

i went from a 1.7 to a 2056 (popular upgrade). i am happy with the outcome, but i have to say to do it right, a TYPE IV can be trickier and more expensive (dollar for dollar for the same h.p. and reliability of many modern engine swaps). there are many guys that have been around these motors and have only $2500 into a fresh 2056. but unless you know where and what to look for, -and- source good used parts you can easily have $5000+ into a good build. if you buy a "turn key", be aware of the misc. parts that they may not have, like "recomended" exhaust, ignition and carbs or aftermarket f.i. that they may require. these items can easily add thousands to the cost.

in hindsight i learned ALOT in the build and it was an overall good/fun experiance. if i had to do over again i would look for a quality used motor from a know source here on the world (they're around) or i'd even think seriously about fitting a low mile f.i. 4.3 vortex v6 (my personal choice if i would do this). there are a ton of guys here with all sorts of combo.'s. but really, unless you want originality there is alot of advantages to moderern tech.

bottom line
do what you want, just be ready for which ever direction you're going. that way you'll enjoy the 914 vrs. siting on jack stands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

mike

[mambodave]

Wow, Thanks for all the responses.

Im a bit of a "purist" , but not to the point where I wont upgrade. I dont want to do the V8 or subi thing.

Well, Budget is not really a huge issue, BUT... Im not crazy either.

Im looking for something that I wont be disapointed with on the track, but at the same time, I dont feel like tearing it down every 2 weeks either.

I have alot of help from friends, but i dont want to be a pain in the ass either, so something already built is the ticket for me, Im not at the level to build an engine. General maint is no issue for me though. I can do brakes, suspension, etc...

[Todd Enlund]

Well, Budget is not really a huge issue, BUT... Im not crazy either.

Im looking for something that I wont be disapointed with on the track, but at the same time, I dont feel like tearing it down every 2 weeks either.

I have alot of help from friends, but i dont want to be a pain in the ass either, so something already built is the ticket for me, Im not at the level to build an engine. General maint is no issue for me though. I can do brakes, suspension, etc...

Based on this... Talk to McMark about a $5K 2056, or take a look at the engine at CAMP914.

[helios]

Stage II - build your 1.7 into a 1911 with a set of 96mm pistons/cylinders.

96mm pistons/cylinders - 1.8L P/Cs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

The reason I ask, is I had someone mention they thought the 1.8 P/Cs on a 1.7 block took the motor out to a 1911. I had assumed I only had a 1.8.

[Todd Enlund]

Stage II - build your 1.7 into a 1911 with a set of 96mm pistons/cylinders.

96mm pistons/cylinders - 1.8L P/Cs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

The reason I ask, is I had someone mention they thought the 1.8 P/Cs on a 1.7 block took the motor out to a 1911. I had assumed I only had a 1.8.

Common Type IV engine sizes:

Stock
90mm x 66mm = 1679 (1.7)
93mm x 66mm = 1793 (1.8)
94mm x 71mm = 1971 (2.0)

Not stock
96mm x 66mm = 1911
96mm x 71mm = 2056
96mm x 78.4mm = 2270
96mm x 80mm = 2316

[helios]

Sweet. Thanks.

[iamchappy]

Just to make you think it over a bit.

3.12 IMSA spec turbo

[914werke]

another turnkey spot

I may have just what your looking for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Linky