Any Info on this Ebay Motor builder schantzmd, Good or Bad for the $$$$ Reliability? Options

[Ga Dan]

I am trying to see if anyone may know this engine builder schantzmd. If you know of this builder, how does this engine compare to the Raby 2270 engines? Dont get me wrong, I would love a Raby turnkey 2270 or maybe a kit, but both are out of my reach when all is said and done. With this being a turnkey and everything set up to run would this be a decent engine and reliable? Just not as much power as Jakes Massive type 4s. I could except less power if I could get a turnkey like this if it is reliable and still has more than stock (stated in the ad - built for 150Hp)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...em=370201454753

[johannes]

If I had 5000$ to spend on a turnkey engine, I would go the Origilal Custom's 5000$ engine http://www.originalcustoms.com/2056.php

[gopack]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
This engine will have well known and documentred internals. the ebay guy is not a known quantity. In addition, this will support one of our own, and is built with Jake's blessing. It is like a MassIVE lite! That is what i will likely do, unless i eventually buy a kit and take the engine building plunge! (waiting for him to offer the 2270!?)

[Gint]

I would probably do the same.

And that's all well and good... and true.

But let's compare apple to apples and not apples to oranges. The 5k motor mentioned is a 2056 not a 2270. It's also not a turn key motor where the ebay motor appears to be, including a clutch, but less exhaust at least.

[Jake Raby]

The parts to comprise one of my MassIVe engines cost the same as what the buy it now is on this Ebay engine....

You will get exactly what you pay for. Spend it now or spend it later, either way its going to be spent.

There is no comparison between this engine and anything that has my name on it. Period.

Here are some reasons why you should quiz this seller more before buying this engine... These things were noted while I did a quick scan of the description of the engine..If I wanted to pick the description apart, he gave me some good ammo.. Here are the highlights.

The idle RPM and ignition timing settings are currently set @ ~900 RPM & ~39° BTC.

What the hell is that?? Is this engine running 39 degrees of advance? What is BTC?
If it is running 39* and optimizes there, that SCREAMS inefficiency! If I build a pump gas engine that optimizes with more than 32* of timing I consider the engine design a failure.

It can also be used in ALL late model Porsche 912Es

How can a vehicle have a "late model" when its one year only??

Parts Build List:

New 104mm AA Hypertuenic Aluminum P/Cs, ~9:1 CR

What the hell are those??? Never heard that term before.

Scat C35 Grind 285 duration, .498 Int, .501 Ex lift Camshaft and Solid reground German Lifters

A new cam with reground lifters?? Thats going to work really well, especially if the lifters were not re heat treated after regrinding! The stock heat treat on the lifters is only .003 deep and any resurfacing will break through it based on my previous experiences.

Rebuilt and Polished VW 009 2.0 Distributor

Wow! Its been polished!

If nothing else I'll take some more pics of the engine so you can at least see how great it looks

I am sure it looks GRRRREEEEAAAATTTT!

Anyone who doesn't know the proper terms of the components used in an engine probably shouldn't be assembling it... If he set the timing to 39* with a 009 dizzy with the advertised 9:1 CR this engine's life span will be measured in minutes!

And now for my favorite part :-)

As the graph below shows this 2.4L engine was built for 150Hp @ 5250 RPM and 175 ft-lbs of Torque @ 3750 RPM which as you can tell far surpasses even the 914-6 2.0 (See Graph below for Hp and Torque Curves based on engine build data specs).

So..... This is an assumption of the power this engine is going to make based off of it's "data specs"??? So in other words the engine has NOT been individually evaluated for it's performance and efficency evaluations.

You are trying to compare an engine that was built by someone "between classes" to an engine thats designed, assembled and evaluated by a team of highly motivated developers that are known world wide for unparalleled attention to detail and over achievement with anything they do... There is no comparison. You won't understand that until you experience it first hand.

What we create isn't just a bunch of thrown together parts that come off someone elses's shelves as generic offerings... Hell, a set of our brand new CNC ported cylinder heads run 1/2 as much as they want for this entire engine that features 35 year old heads...

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Jul 21 2009, 09:02 AM

[Smitty911]

Well at least he gave you an Honorable Mention in the Q&A area. LOL

Thanks Jake for the work you do.

[ConeDodger]

+1 for McMark's $5000 2056 builds. Mark is an all round - nice guy who likes burgers and has a big brain... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) You cannot go wrong with a McMark 2056 motor...

[DBCooper]

I don't think this forum should be used by vendors to run down other vendors.

[Jake Raby]

It wasn't anything more than stating the obvious facts that were posted by the ebay Vendor in his description of the product... These things should be paid attention to by those who are considering a purchase of this commodity that is confusingly similar (and even compared to by the OP) to the product that I offer.

Facts are facts.

Another fact is that DB Cooper (AKA Paul Illick) is a member of my opposition that would do anything to discriminate against me or what my company creates.

BTW- I apologize for any hurt feelings in advance and do not wish to turn this poster's thread into another flame war... Perhaps someone here has bought one of these engines and can attest to it's performance with some facts that could help get the thread back on track???

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Jul 21 2009, 11:17 AM

[Cupomeat]

Well, the way I look at it, I can add one more BS car phase to use with my friends.

- Hypertuenic Pistons...


Add that to;

- Starter hoses
- Headlight fluid
- Torque converter timing adjusters
- etc.

I figure I am one up after reading this ad.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[ConeDodger]

I don't think this forum should be used by vendors to run down other vendors.

Agreed but, a quick check of the member vendor section reveals that this guy is not a member vendor here. The original post is looking for information including quality and integrity (implied). The most obvious problem with his engine program is that the retail price of the necessary replacement components, sealants, seals is right around the same price as his "buy it now". That would make the rebuild basically free, right? That sounds like an unbelievable deal doesn't it? That is why I don't believe it.

Jake's line by line analysis of his ebay ad points out a number of questions too... For one thing, some of what the guy says makes no sense at all. But that may be the point. The guy may be saying things that make no sense because if you don't know what it means, you will assume he does and not ask because it might make you look stupid. That is human nature.
Bottom line is, the only way the subject ebay motor can be sold at that "buy it now" price is to be a stock motor that has been taken apart, cleaned?, re-ringed and bolted back together using sweat shop labor. Either that or the guy is a philanthopist and he is losing a grand or two on each engine he sells just to give away his millions to deserving Type IV enthusiasts. What do you think? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Jake Raby]

The guy may be saying things that make no sense because if you don't know what it means, you will assume he does and not ask because it might make you look stupid. That is human nature

Thanks for that observation Dr. Sime :-)

[ConeDodger]

The guy may be saying things that make no sense because if you don't know what it means, you will assume he does and not ask because it might make you look stupid. That is human nature

Thanks for that observation Dr. Sime :-)

Schools are trying to teach a concept now from K through 12 that has been taught in higher education for the last 10 - 15 years called critical thinking. The basic concept is that if we continuously question what is assumed to be right, we will continuously improve our lives. Guys who use razzle dazzle like this will have to get real jobs if most people begin to think this way.

[PeeGreen 914]

Jake, thanks for pointing all that out. Good stuff to consider. Plus, I like the "spend it now or spend it later" saying... too true with this stuff. Do it right the first time and don't look back.

[ghuff]

5000$ random ebay engine bought on internet pictures?

Seriously? Just click buy it now for a motor? That is nuts..... and just wreaks of disaster. You can't just buy things like motors or turbos on ebay, guitars, etc. Things with a lot of dependencies and tight clearances......

Sounds like flushing 5k down a toilet to me.

[ericread]

I am truly disappointed to find that Jake does not support the "Late Model 912".

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

Eric

[Jake Raby]

I am truly disappointed to find that Jake does not support the "Late Model 912".

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

Eric

Yeah, never liked that '69, 912 :-)

A 912E is an entirely different car!

[DBCooper]

I don't think this forum should be used by vendors to run down other vendors.

Agreed but, a quick check of the member vendor section reveals that this guy is not a member vendor here. The original post is looking for information including quality and integrity (implied).

Rob, why would the guy not being a member here make any difference? Does it somehow make it O.K. to rag on him if he's not here to defend himself? No, a vendor shouldn't be using forums to run down other vendors, period. That's common business ethics. Now if you're one of his CUSTOMERS then please share some actual information about the man's quality and integrity, instead of negative implications and inference. And point of order, grammar and spelling have absolutely no relation to a man's integrity.

And Jake, a member of "your opposition"? Be careful, that sounds like advancing megalomania. Or paranoia. Or both. You're wrong anyway. I'm not "opposed" to you, I'm just not a fan of infomercials. Or hype. And I especially don't care for people who hype themselves at the expense of other people. Don't forget I defended you when you were young and starting out and were being backhanded. I haven't changed, you have. Don't be like the people you didn't like then.

A vendor shouldn't run down other vendors. Period.

[ConeDodger]

I don't think this forum should be used by vendors to run down other vendors.

Agreed but, a quick check of the member vendor section reveals that this guy is not a member vendor here. The original post is looking for information including quality and integrity (implied).

Rob, why would the guy not being a member here make any difference? Does it somehow make it O.K. to rag on him if he's not here to defend himself? No, a vendor shouldn't be using forums to run down other vendors, period. That's common business ethics. Now if you're one of his CUSTOMERS then please share some actual information about the man's quality and integrity, instead of negative implications and inference. And point of order, grammar and spelling have absolutely no relation to a man's integrity.

And Jake, a member of "your opposition"? Be careful, that sounds like advancing megalomania. Or paranoia. Or both. You're wrong anyway. I'm not "opposed" to you, I'm just not a fan of infomercials. Or hype. And I especially don't care for people who hype themselves at the expense of other people. Don't forget I defended you when you were young and starting out and were being backhanded. I haven't changed, you have. Don't be like the people you didn't like then.

A vendor shouldn't run down other vendors. Period.

I'm not sure that such a rule exists Paul. Perhaps it should but then how would we keep from being victimized by guys like Stromberg? Motormeister? Are we not to criticize them? I am pretty good at smelling bullshit but I sure appreciate when an expert can tell me why I don't like what I am smelling.

Jake provided analysis. In no way was it an informercial and the original post indicates he wishes he could afford a Raby turnkey. That pretty much invites Jake to do the analysis. I wish I could have a Raby turnkey but since I can't, how does this engine compare is basically what he is asking. Jake already knows he cannot sell anything to the guy because he stated in his post he cannot afford a Raby motor.

There are a few really good engine builders who can put together a Type IV with skill. That Hamilton car in the Bay area screams and that is just one example.
In my opinion, none does research and development using scientific method the way Jake Raby does. Jake does have opposition. That is not paranoia. The same names show up everytime something comes up that he could be criticized for. Hell, when my engine blew up, two people had already left him scathing critical voice mail before I even had the chance to tell him myself.

So if you really feel that a rule should exist that no one criticizes vendors then perhaps we can get the Admin crew to look at that. But if not, then Jake is right and this is just another opportunistic pot-shot.

I for one, bought a set of pistons and cylinders from Stromberg before I knew any better. I am now thankful that I have a place I can ask people who to trust. I couldn't even bear to re-sell them. Threw them out.

Anyone else have a concern about a turnkey engine that has been run for "2 hours" without an exhaust system? 20 minutes to break in the cam is all I would do to keep from burning valves...

[ghuff]

I find this criticism of Jake Raby funny..... I have been building various makes of cars for YEARS and worked with various vendors and builders.

I have yet to see anyone posting what he does, doing the research he does in the import world. Seriously, perhaps it's the "tuner" generation but nobody I have seen could hold a candle to the operation.

I'm talking 500-600hp turbo watercooled VW's have 1/32 of the development, and thought that he has into some type 4 setups. I can not imagine what they could do if their game was stepped up to what I have seen so far.

400whp type IV on pump gas? Yeah...... Out of a type IV...