Looking for some suspension bushing suggestions, Which is best? How hard to install? Any recommendations or advice Options

[nsr-jamie]

Hi, just about to pull apart my entire suspension for the big winter project...I have all my suspensions parts ready to go (Koni shocks,Tarret 19mm front bar and 150 pound springs).... the last part I want to replace is the suspension bushings....what I am asking here is what is everybody using for their cars? My car will be a high performance weekend fun car, occasionally driven to work on nice days, mostly weekend mountain driving and occasional autocrossing...looking for a nice sporty ride.

I know Weltmeister makes a complete kit that Automotion sells for around 70 dollars for the set....than I noticed Tangerine has their sets too, and I always hear good things about the Elephant Racing bushings.....I was thinking about going with the Elephant bushings but they are expensive.

Is installing the bushings a major job? I have never done this kind of work before...if any body has any advice or some suggestions or other bushings please feel free to post and thank you

Cheers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[SirAndy]

Oh boy ... :ducking for cover:


The suspension bushing debate is about as heated as the /6 vs. /4 debate. Do a search here, Eric Shea posted a very good thread not too long ago on some of his findings.


I'm running the FreeMotion roller bearings, but they are the most expensive solution so most people shy away from them.

http://www.originalcustoms.com/FreeMotion.php

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[mrbubblehead]

i just installed elephant poly bronze on my rear trailing arms. the hardest part is getting the old rubbers out. a press was needed for mine.

[phillstek]

I've recently installed ER rear bushes in my car and though expensive, they're really nice. Easy to install too, with comprehensive instructions. I like the fact that they're greasable and therefore should never require replacing.

Phil

[phillstek]

i just installed elephant poly bronze on my rear trailing arms. the hardest part is getting the old rubbers out. a press was needed for mine.

I just took to the old rubbers with a drill and they came out easy.

Phil

[mrbubblehead]

i just installed elephant poly bronze on my rear trailing arms. the hardest part is getting the old rubbers out. a press was needed for mine.

I just took to the old rubbers with a drill and they came out easy.

Phil

WOW! i tried that but gave up. i went out and bought a hydrolic press. ive always needed one, so it gave me a good excuse.

[mgardstr]

I'm glad you asked this question so I can ask my related question without starting a new thread.
When the new bushings are installed, should the arm, without the shock attached, move freely up and down, or should there be resistance? My old stock bushings feel like there is a lot resistance when I move them up and down unattached to the shock.
I'll be watching this thread to see what everyone suggest you use, then I'll get the same.

[SirAndy]

When the new bushings are installed, should the arm, without the shock attached, move freely up and down, or should there be resistance? My old stock bushings feel like there is a lot resistance when I move them up and down unattached to the shock.

The stock rubber bushings stick a lot. Replacement rubber bushings stick a bit. Correctly installed and greased plastic and bronze bushings stick a little bit. Roller bearings don't stick at all.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[mgardstr]

SirAndy,
Which is best, sticking or not and what were they like when new, sticky or not?
I remember driving brand new 914s from the dealer in the early 70s and they sure had a better ride than any I have ever owned.

[silver74insocal]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) this sounds familiar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=114206&hl=

and Andy is right...the search function will bring you hours of reading on the debate. good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[r_towle]

Jamie,
If you are going stock and want a nice ride...get the new rubber ones.

Rubber does stick and provide resistance, but in a street car, that is ok and its offset by the smoother ride and less direct contact with the road imperfections.

Like Andy, I have linear roller bearings...several places make them up but they are not cheap...and really not good for a DD.

Rich

[phillstek]

When the new bushings are installed, should the arm, without the shock attached, move freely up and down, or should there be resistance? My old stock bushings feel like there is a lot resistance when I move them up and down unattached to the shock.

The stock rubber bushings stick a lot. Replacement rubber bushings stick a bit. Correctly installed and greased plastic and bronze bushings stick a little bit. Roller bearings don't stick at all.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I found that the ER bushes allow the trailing arm to rotate freely without any resistance at all.

When you say roller bearings is that different to needle bearings?

Phil

[SirAndy]

When you say roller bearings is that different to needle bearings?

No, one and the same ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[nsr-jamie]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) this sounds familiar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=114206&hl=

and Andy is right...the search function will bring you hours of reading on the debate. good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Thanks! I will check the thread out, actually I did do a search and didn't really come up with anything I needed to answer my question. I guess I am not that good at using the search, I did give it a good 1 hour before

I am looking for a complete front and rear bushing set

Also curious about what other brands are out there, I never heard of the ones Andy is using...all I know about is Weltmiester, Tangerine and Elephant racing...

Cheers

[nsr-jamie]

Jamie,
If you are going stock and want a nice ride...get the new rubber ones.

Rubber does stick and provide resistance, but in a street car, that is ok and its offset by the smoother ride and less direct contact with the road imperfections.

Like Andy, I have linear roller bearings...several places make them up but they are not cheap...and really not good for a DD.

Rich

Thanks Rich! What rubber ones would you recommend? My car is not really a DD but more of a fun weekend car and I want to have one nice handling 914...I got Koni shocks, 150 pound springs and a new GPR/Tarret 19.4mm sway bar plus turbo tie rods coming soon too. How about the Weltmeister ones? Those are very reasonably priced on the Automotion site, 70 dollars for a complete set to do one car (front and rear)

[pcar916]

It's a matter of proper handling under heavy turns and severe braking and what that's worth to you. Much of that is related to the stiffness in your spring system, but if we assume the same spring rates in each case, I look at it as an easy decision. Only those I have experience with are listed.

The ones you can do yourself:
1. Stock: more deflection, thus more alignment changes during maneuvers.
2. Delrin: Cheap and very stiff but fine if properly installed. They wear out quickest of all of them.
3. Elephant Polybronze: Fairly easy installation, tiny deflection under stress. They're expensive but possibly the last ones the car needs if they are maintained (lubricated) properly.

Professionally installed into your suspension arms,
1. Roller bearings: Most expensive, essentially no deflection, bolt-up installation by you. Prone to water intrusion if the seals aren't properly designed/installed.

I run Elephant for three reasons.
1. Stiff enough for me.
2. I can install them myself
3. Water sealing issues (i.e. rusty bearings/races) in a place that I can't inspect make me crazy so roller-bearings don't appeal to me in THIS application. The cost-benefit is more than I like since the Elephant solution gives me the ability to lubricate each of them as well, and allows so little deflection that I likely won't be able to tell the difference.

Good luck!

[r_towle]

I installed my bearings...its a simple process and DIY.
I think the rubber ones require a press, and I would go with those if I had to do it over again...
The stock rubber lasted 40 years....replacement rubber should last half as long IMHO.

RIch

[nsr-jamie]

I installed my bearings...its a simple process and DIY.
I think the rubber ones require a press, and I would go with those if I had to do it over again...
The stock rubber lasted 40 years....replacement rubber should last half as long IMHO.

RIch

Thanks Rich,

Can I ask where did you get your bushings? How much did you pay? Thank you!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[nsr-jamie]

It's a matter of proper handling under heavy turns and severe braking and what that's worth to you. Much of that is related to the stiffness in your spring system, but if we assume the same spring rates in each case, I look at it as an easy decision. Only those I have experience with are listed.

The ones you can do yourself:
1. Stock: more deflection, thus more alignment changes during maneuvers.
2. Delrin: Cheap and very stiff but fine if properly installed. They wear out quickest of all of them.
3. Elephant Polybronze: Fairly easy installation, tiny deflection under stress. They're expensive but possibly the last ones the car needs if they are maintained (lubricated) properly.

Professionally installed into your suspension arms,
1. Roller bearings: Most expensive, essentially no deflection, bolt-up installation by you. Prone to water intrusion if the seals aren't properly designed/installed.

I run Elephant for three reasons.
1. Stiff enough for me.
2. I can install them myself
3. Water sealing issues (i.e. rusty bearings/races) in a place that I can't inspect make me crazy so roller-bearings don't appeal to me in THIS application. The cost-benefit is more than I like since the Elephant solution gives me the ability to lubricate each of them as well, and allows so little deflection that I likely won't be able to tell the difference.

Good luck!

Thank you for the excellent info...you have the Elephant bushings? These are what I am still thinking about but having problems deciding.... how is the ride? Is your car a pure racer? Or like my car, a weekend fun car that I like to drive and take to the mountains....I don't mind a firm ride....just curious how is your ride and what kind of driving are you doing? (race? DD? fun car? AX?)

[pcar916]

... just curious how is your ride and what kind of driving are you doing? (race? DD? fun car? AX?)

Mine is basically a race car I keep on the street (daily driver) and it's quite stiff, but the stiffness isn't from the bushings. It's from the 23mm front torsion bars, the 22mm front sway-bar, Bilstein sport front inserts, the 200# rear springs, and koni gas adjustable shocks. Road race cars make for the most fun road cars because the elements we face on the road are more like a road-race track than an AX.

My car is built for road-track use and it's not set-up to do AX unless I make big changes to soften the front (sway-bar adjustments) and/or stiffen the rear with a shock adjustment... usually both. Plus the clutch-type 60/40 LSD makes for a push on tight AX elements. But as I said it's a daily driver and I live very close to some great mountain roads.

I like nothing better than to go out into the twisty roads and push the car. Those Elephant bushings made a dramatic difference in the crispness of my turns. Nothing will make you quicker than confidence that when you make a steering input, that you feel the car respond the same way every time, and that it happens RIGHT NOW!

The non-stock bushings don't stiffen the car but they simply do two things:

1. With proper installation they give our swing arms the ability to move freely and NOT become part of the spring equation with drag. That would make them spring-dampeners.
2. They reduce (in directions that steal energy from your steering input) suspension arm movement. The biggest benefit you will get is a crispness in steering that, if you're "tuned" to your car with rubber or old bushings, you will notice immediately.

None of these are going to increase the impact of the road on your butt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) That's purely a function of your springs, shocks (which are a kind of spring) and the weight of the car.