Flying through a Valve adjustment, and discovered why car was running BAD!!!! Options

[Noodles]

OK first off I'm a complete noobie. Have had my teener for about 2 months now so I'm learning everything as I go.

Today I tore off my valve covers because car started running very badly. Had a big miss and lost almost all power. Was adjusting valves starting at 1 and working my way around, had a few that were in need of adjusting then I got to number 4 and found this.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1028.photobucket.com-14688-1346548525.1.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1028.photobucket.com-14688-1346548525.2.jpg)

The nut was sitting in the bottom and the washer is just missing. Ran a magnet around and just no luck finding it. Dont know if its in the bottom end or what.

I got some new washers and tightened it down but now it pushes the rocker down to far once its good and tight, (I think thats what its called, like I said I'm very very new) and I cant get a feeler gauge in to adjust the valves, Its pushed way down below the spring and very tight. I can move the far right one but the one on the left wont budge whatsoever.

Any help and advice would be much appreciated. Am I going to have to tear this all apart and redo it or am I just missing something easy?

[bandjoey]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=28758

Use the Captn's method and you can't go wrong. It's easy after reading his process about 8 times.

Good Luck

[Bob L.]

I'll bet it went down the oil return tube. If you can pull the rockers and the pushrods you can try the magnet stick down the tubes to extract it. Perhaps with the right magnet you could do it without removing everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Noodles]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=28758

Use the Captn's method and you can't go wrong. It's easy after reading his process about 8 times.

Good Luck

This way just confuses the hell out of me, I'm using the one posted on pelican parts. Start at Top dead center and then keep rotating 180 and go through the cylinders. Rotor is at 3 o'clock and I see the big notch in the flywheel and I'm trying to do #4.

But I think my problem is much bigger, I was missing the nut on the far right side of the pic when I opened it up and the rocker was very loose, there was alot of play I could move it an inch or two. And now when I tighten it back down I can't adjust the intake valve. Its a bit below the spring.

[rhcb914]

I would take that assembly out and see why you lost the nut. Did the stud pull out from the head and then the nut lost tension? I've never had one of them back out for no reason.

If all checks out then pull out the push rods and snake a magnet down to try and find the nut and washer. Pull out the screen at the bottom of the motor sometime things end up in there. I would highly recommend not starting it until you find the critters or you will end up with an expensive teaching moment.

When you are ready to reassemble the rocker assembly:

First, back out the both adjustment screws way out so there is no tension on either one. Second make sure the pushrods are both fully seated in the lifter and the rocker when you tighten down the nuts. Once you have the nuts torqued correctly then you need to re-do the valve adjustments.

Good luck!

[Dave_Darling]

If that cylinder is at TDC, there should be some slack on both arms. Make sure you're at TDC for that cylinder.

The pushrod could have fallen out of the "cup" in the lifter, and be stuck on the lip of the cup. You can fix that with a good bit of messing with the pushrod; I have poked an L-shaped Allen wrench partway down the tube to act as a fulcrum to push the inner end of the pushrod up into the cup.

--DD

[dirk9141973]

I had this problem or about the same
1. Check the threads on 6 mm studs replace with 8mm studs
2. When you reseat push rods and rocker arms make sure it seats properly
3. Spend extra time adjusting valves I like the 180 rotation method 1,4,3,2
Once you get it right easy but confusing good luck!!

[dirk9141973]

I had this problem or about the same
1. Check the threads on 6 mm studs replace with 8mm studs
2. When you reseat push rods and rocker arms make sure it seats properly
3. Spend extra time adjusting valves I like the 180 rotation method 1,4,3,2
4. Do not over tighten rocker arms 10 ft/pd
Once you get it right easy but confusing good luck!!

great pictures !!!

[brant]

also when those shafts get loose, the pushrod falls out of the rocker cup....


when that happens everything gets tight


loosen the adjuster as far as you can
possibly you will have to loosen the rocker shaft again (on both sides this time)...

make sure all of the pushrods are seated in the rocker cups as you gently tighten the shafts back down in a stepped fashion..

brant

[etcmss]

so where is the washer? can it be affecting proper seating?
pull the whole rocker off and find the washer---or convince yourself this is not a concern-reinstall and finish adjust.....something seems to be affecting that intake valve---it was running before and is this different? does the valve position change when you roll the engine (do after you are sure it not down the push rod tubes)
Gary

[TheCabinetmaker]

I don't see how the washer could have made its way in the lower part of the engine. The only place for it to go is inside the pushrod tubes. I would remove that rocker set, and the retaining spring and pull the tubes back enough to access the case side of the tubes. A washer that was missing to begin with might explain why the nut backed off.

[rick 918-S]

If that cylinder is at TDC, there should be some slack on both arms. Make sure you're at TDC for that cylinder.

The pushrod could have fallen out of the "cup" in the lifter, and be stuck on the lip of the cup. You can fix that with a good bit of messing with the pushrod; I have poked an L-shaped Allen wrench partway down the tube to act as a fulcrum to push the inner end of the pushrod up into the cup.

--DD

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Push rod is likely out of the cup. Also back the adjusters off.

Also, The washer would have to travel down the push rod tubeto get back to the crank case. I would think it would take a while for this to happen. How long did you run the engine when it started to mis-fire?

It's more likely that the last guy in there failed to install the washer. This could be why the nut came off. Use the correct washers. They are thin wavey spring washers. I have purchased these at the hardware store. (not the home depot)

[TheCabinetmaker]

I don't see how a washer could get past the lifter. Maybe its sitting in the lifter cup causing the problems with the clearance.

[Noodles]

Thanks so much for all the replies, I'll be tearing off the rockers and hopefully find that washer and make sure everything is seated in right.

I only ran maybe 2 miles when it started running like poo, luckily I was almost home.

[euro911]

I don't see how a washer could get past the lifter. Maybe its sitting in the lifter cup causing the problems with the clearance.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) ... it wouldn't go past the lifter into the case, but may have never been installed in the first place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[aircooledtechguy]

I don't see how a washer could get past the lifter. Maybe its sitting in the lifter cup causing the problems with the clearance.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) ... it wouldn't go past the lifter into the case, but may have never been installed in the first place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Easy; at the end of the push rod bore-step (the ledge that the push rod seats to), there is about a 1/2"+ cut-out facing down to allow the oil from the heads to drain back to the sump. That is BEFORE the lifter bore. That's how nuts and washers get into the sump. There is one of these before every lifter. Because of this that's why crank case pressures effect the heads and you have vented valve covers. You need to pull the sump plate and use a magnet to get that crap out ASAP. The nut may still be in the push rod tube since it's kind of bulky with those massive push rods in there. But a washer will flow right down and into the sump no problem. . .

As others have said, there may not have even been a washer and that's likely why it came loose in the first place. But you still are well advised to search for it with a magnet.

The 8mm stud upgrades are a wise investment. . . Good luck!!

[cgnj]

I would check all of of the push rod tubes.I find it had to believe it could have walked into into the sump past the lifter. Are those swivel feet? I see rocker spacers.

I don't worry about the the flywheel mark except for #1. I just turn till the exhaust moves then back up.

Carlos

[aircooledtechguy]

I would check all of of the push rod tubes.I find it had to believe it could have walked into into the sump past the lifter.

This was the whole point of my post above. A washer won't even get to a lifter due to gravity. IT WILL FALL INTO THE SUMP PRIOR TO THE LIFTER. Have you ever seen the inside of a case lately?? There are HUGE oil drains that are outboard of every lifter and just inboard of every push rod. If there were no drains, all the oil would stay in the heads and eventually you would have none in the sump.