ethanol free gas, should I use ethanol free gas for my 1975 914 2.0? Options

[wd40togo]

I have a 1975 914 2.0, should I be using ethanol free gas? It appears to have the orginal metal gas tank.

[SLITS]

I didn't know you could get ethanol free fuel except for race gas.

While it has less bang for the buck, the main concern are the rubber hoses / seals in the fuel system. Use ethanol rated fuel line and it shouldn't be a problem.

If "ethanol free" is cheaper ... use it.

[Krieger]

If you can find it buy it! Welcome to the club!

[billh1963]

In SC we actually have a number of stations that sell it. It's popular for boaters with older engines, fuel systems, and/or fiberglass fuel tanks. Cost is not that much higher (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[t collins]

i high recommend ethanol free gas! check here for availibility in your area.
http://pure-gas.org/

[ArtechnikA]

we should all be using ethanol-free gas ;-) ...

maybe someday, but as there is a move to introduce E15, the politicos who want to pretend to be chemists and engine designers (since they are clearly _not_ economists...) seem to be moving in the wrong direction.

In PA there is ethanol-free gas available at marinas and that's pretty much it unless you're buying race gas in 55-gallon drums.

In semi-related news, the sole US company that makes tetraethyl lead has announced that it's pulling completely out of the ground-vehicles market although they will continue to make it for AvGas.

[SLITS]

Wow ... 5 stations in California, Northern California at that and at $5.28 gallon ... only 1800 mile round trip for me to find ethanol free fuel. What a deal!

[carr914]

I have a 1975 914 2.0, should I be using ethanol free gas? It appears to have the orginal metal gas tank.

YES, Old Cars don't like Ethanol

I didn't know you could get ethanol free fuel except for race gas.

While it has less bang for the buck, the main concern are the rubber hoses / seals in the fuel system. Use ethanol rated fuel line and it shouldn't be a problem.

If "ethanol free" is cheaper ... use it.

I can get E-Free in three different Octanes (87, 89, & 93), I filled the 911 up with 93 E-Free this morning.

E-Free is more expensive (about 10%), but you will get 10-15% better Mileage.

also put E-Free in all your Yard Equipment (Mowers, Edgers, etc) or replace your equipment all the time. My Lawn-Mower Engine is 12 Years Old ( I use it every week of the year), the base rusted out, so I found someone's mower that they were tossing in the garbage cuz the engine went, put my engine on it & presto - chango, New Mower

[t collins]

Wow ... 5 stations in California, Northern California at that and at $5.28 gallon ... only 1800 mile round trip for me to find ethanol free fuel. What a deal!

5 stations in my town at 3.58/gal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[JawjaPorsche]

Yes, if you can find it. Your fuel hoses will thank you! It is the only gas I will put in my teener.

[Ian Stott]

For those of you in Canada or if visiting, use Shell gas, I understand it is ethanol free.

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

[JamesM]

I prefer ethanol free for any car, not just my 914s. Unfortanitly there is only one station I have found in Utah that has it (and only in 92) and that station is 20 miles away. I stll get it when i can despite the fact that they charge 25% more at times.

Better for the cars and we need to support the stations that are putting up a resistance to this crap.

[914Eric]

We have ethanol free premium available here in Idaho. I use it in my dirt bikes, 4wheelers, generators...anything that sometimes has its fuel sitting for a while.

Mechanics I trust tell me it is much less liable to turn to jelly and foul carbs and injectors. That's what I'll be feeding Baby when I get her on the road.

[Tom_T]

Wow ... 5 stations in California, Northern California at that and at $5.28 gallon ... only 1800 mile round trip for me to find ethanol free fuel. What a deal!

5 stations in my town at 3.58/gal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Yes, once you leave "the peoples republic of california" - where big oil is given free reign on overpricing with a governmental enviro-price profit bonus - you can actually fine E-free at a reasonable price at multiple stations! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

At lil' ole Sallisaw OK along I-40 in NE OK - where I go often - there are at least 3 stations selling E-free for about the same price as comparable grade corn-gas. Don't know of any in SoCal, but haven't looked yet.

IMHO the MTBE crap gas additive before Ethanol was worse, as it literally ate thru the grommets & seals on the top of our Vanagon Westy gas tank, so I had to pay $2-300 every 2-3 years to reseal the tank & royal PITA!

As TC said - so long as the price differential is about the same as the 10-15% better fuel mileage, then it's a wash. However, you also have to figure the ongoing cost for added maintenance & damage to your motor & fuel system not designed for E-gas, so you have to add that on too.

BTW - the 10-15% less mpg with E-gas is part of why folks are getting less thant the 29-35 mpg they used to get on their 914/4s!

FYI - Ethanol used to be called "White Lightin' " & running it gave birth to NASCAR! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[carr914]

Mechanics I trust tell me it is much less liable to turn to jelly and foul carbs and injectors.

The Real issues with Ethanol are that it absorbs water which will screw up Carbs ( New FI Systems handle it OK because of the High Pressure) and that it is highly corosive (which is where it eats Fuel Lines). In Lawn equipment which sits most of the time the Water absorbtion is much worse.

Even in your regular cars where you use E-10, the best thing to do is always have your car at a 1/4 to 1/2 Tank, because the Gas can go bad quickly

[Type 47]

No "E free" fuel here in Missouri...not that we want E free gas.

Oh my seals might shrink...OMG!

Bring on the horsepower baby! set up for E85!!!!

My Vette just loves the E15 (mandated in the big cities by Al Gore)

My fuel milage in the Avalanche sucks with E85 so I don't use it.

In my performance cars I don't care about MPG and the seals in all of my stuff that uses gas are just fine.

[Mike Bellis]

I wish every station had E85... Then I could turn the boost way up and make serious HP... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Mark Henry]

Did some research on this.
You can test your own gas, below is the DIY method or you can buy test kits.

This one you have to buy the kit and then solution, a bit spendy IMHO, but it is fast and uses the least amount of gasoline. One kit tests 450 times so it's still a good deal.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/index.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Deluxe-Alcohol-F...=mtr&_uhb=1

These ones you just use water, no solutions to buy. You know pretty quick if you have ethenol, but have to wait 5 minutes to know percentage. (see video bottom of this post)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUICK-FUEL-E-85-FU...=mtr&_uhb=1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUICK-FUEL-RACE-MA...=mtr&_uhb=1

Or you can do it yourself

Field Test for Determining Presence and Amount of Alcohol

Field Information Number 306

In Gasoline

EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT ASSOCIATION, INC. (EAA) appreciates the permission of Conoco, Inc. to base this field test procedure on one developed by the company.

Scope
This method determines the amount, if any, of alcohol present in gasoline. This test is designed specifically for field-testing where time and simplicity are important factors.

Summary of Method
A sample of gasoline is shaken at room temperature with an amount of added water. The volume increase of water is proportional to the amount of alcohol initially in the fuel sample. Nine (9) parts of the gasoline sample are combined with one (1) part water.

Appartus Required for Either of the Methods Below
Graduated Cylinder Method - One (1) each one thousand milliliter (1000 ml) clear Pyrex or shatter-resistant glass graduated cylinder OR transparent chemical-resistant plastic (such as TPX) graduated cylinder. (These can be purchased from laboratory or chemical equipment suppliers.)

Measuring Cup Method - One (1) each 2-quart clear pyrex, glass, or chemical resistant plastic container. One (1) each 4-fluid-ounce measuring up (1/2 cup). One (1) each 32-fluid-ounce measuring cup (1 quart).

Preperation
Clean Containers.

On the 2-quart container, mark the level of exactly four (4) fluid ounces (1/2 cup) permanently on the side (a piece of masking tape can be used).

Procedure
Graduated Cylinder Method - To 9 parts of gasoline (900 ml), add 100 ml of water for a total of 1000 ml in the graduated cylinder. Shake thoroughly, let stand for 10 minutes or until gasoline is again bright and clear. Record the apparent level of the line between the gasoline and water. This “Final Volume” is used in the calculation below.

Measuring Cup Method - To nine (9) parts of the gasoline sample (36 ounces or 1 quart plus ½ cup), add 4 fluid ounces (1/2 cup) of water for a total of 40 fluid ounces in the 2-quart container. Shake thoroughly, let stand for 10 minutes or until gasoline is again bright and clear. Record the apparent level of the line between the gasoline and water.

The Measuring Cup Method is intended to indicate the presence of alcohol and is not practical to evaluate the amount of alcohol. If the final line between gasoline and water is measurably higher than the ½ cup mark, the presence of alcohol is indicated.

NOTE: Erroneous results are probable if sample and water are not thoroughly shaken and mixed.

Calculation
Graduated Cylinder Method - Note the final volume and calculate the percentage of alcohol in the sample using the following calculation: Percentage of Alcohol in Gasoline = (Volume – 100 divided by 900) X 100.

Where: V = “Final Volume” of water as determined in procedure above (read at separation line between water and gasoline).

Precision
Within +/- 1% alcohol if you measured and recorded accurately.

Action to be Taken
In the opinion of EAA, and in the interest of most conservative operations, the following observations are offered:

If alcohol content is less than 1%, fuel will probably have no effect on aircraft.

If fuel contains up to 5% alcohol, caution must be exercised. Do not permit it to remain in tanks or fuel system for more than 24 hours, then drain and refill with alcohol-free fuel, ensuring that no alcohol concentration remains in fuel lines or sump. Vapor lock may be a problem. DO NOT FLY.

If alcohol content is more than 5%, DO NOT FLY. Drain the fuel system, flush all parts, replace with clean alcohol-free fuel and run up engine long enough to exchange fuel in carburetor bowl.

Known Problems
Alcohol attacks some seal materials and varnishes on cork floats of fuel level indicators. This could cause leakage of seals and release particles of varnish from floats, causing blocked screens in fuel lines or blocked carburetor jets. Excessive entrained water carried by alcohol could lead to fuel line blockage or blockage at screens or values when operating at low ambient temperatures at ground level or at high altitude. Fuel volatility is also increased with the addition of alcohol in a manner that is not detected by the Reid Vapor Pressure test, which is used to determine if a fuel meets the automotive specification. For example, a gasoline with alcohol will meet the Reid Vapor Pressure limit of 13.5 psi but it will behave as though it has a volatility of roughly 20 psi. Gasolines with alcohol will also phase separate. Phase separation occurs as the gasoline/alcohol blend cools, such as when a plane climbs to a higher altitude. When water that is absorbed in the fuel by alcohol comes out of solution, it takes most of the alcohol with it. The quantity that comes out of solution cannot be handled by the sediment bowl and tank sumps. Furthermore, if the alcohol is used to raise the octane of the base gasoline, the gasoline that remains will not have sufficient octane to prevent detonation. A good reference for this phase separation problem is: Paul Corp., Laboratory Investigations into the Effects of Adding Alcohol to Turbine Fuel, DOT/FAA/CT-TN88/25 July 1988, FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City International Airport, NJ 08405.

Precautionary
Gasoline is volatile, extremely flammable and harmful, or fatal if swallowed. Avoid prolonged or repeated breathing of vapor or contact with skin or eyes. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting, get medical care immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSQSuCiUjE

[TC 914-8]

My local PCA chapter, Olympic Pennisula P C A, has arranged a group to allow us to join and purchace from Masco Petroleum, which is an "unmanned" station which bills you monthly. For the purpose of my 914 and household equipment I'm thinking of joining the group.
Look for it in your area (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Mark Henry]

OK.
The above method works great.

What is needed is a tall thin glass jar with a good lid.
Marks will not stay long due to the gas so I took a glass cutter and made my marks.
It must be glass or a fuel safe (TPX) clear plastic.

I took 1000ml (1 litre or just over 1 quart) mason jar with a lid.
Marked it at 100ml, 190ml, 200ml, 240ml and 1000ml.

Add 100ml (10%) water then fill to 1000ml with gas.

Place lid on and shake well. You see the result immediately, but it wont be accurate till about 5 minutes when it all settles.

If you see no change in the water level it is gas only.
190ml and it is E-10, 10% ethanol.
200ml 11%
240ml 15% ethanol, E-15.


Now, I don't want to waste that much gas (plus you have to dump it) so I tried a baby food jar.

100ml total
Marked at 10ml, 20ml, 25ml and 100ml
Same as above, 10ml water fill with gas, >20ml is 10%, >25ml is 15% ethanol.
It works, not as accurate and not really practical at a gas station IMO.

Still looking around the house for a small, tall, thin, glass bottle with a good lid

I dont know if we have E-15 here so it would great if someone would repeat this experiment and post their results. The E-10 result looked dead nuts on.