2 stage paint Options

[914itis]

I sprayed a 2 stage paint for the first time. I primed with a 2 k primer cut with thinner, waited an hour spray the base coat, 3 coats then clear coat.

I am not sure If i miss some spots or if it is a reaction, for some reason, I can see the primer under the paint. It's hard to see but can be seen with enough lighting.

It can be see in a few areas.

What did I do wrong and how do I correct this ?

[bulitt]

Dont have a clue, but the experts will want to know what brand of paint, what gun nozzle sizes? What color? Thinner??? Do you mean the reducer and catalyst provided by the paint supplier? Did they provide mixing instructions? Temp, humidity?

[Andyrew]

How many coats of base did you use?

Depending on how thin the base coat is, if the primer is color coated to the base coat (Aka lighter colors use a lighter grey primer), it takes me 2-3 coats of base for complete coverage.

[ThePaintedMan]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I don't have near the experience as the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Scottys, Ricks or others, as I have always done auto body and paint as a hobby, but it sounds like you used a mis-matched primer or used a very light base coat for the job. For example, yellows and oranges take many, MANY more coats to get the depth that darker colors do. What color did you spray would be my first question, assuming that you don't notice any major flaws across the whole panel.

Sometimes you just need more paint.

[914itis]

I sprayed 3 coats, the primer is grey and the paint is red. I am sure o needed to spray more coats.
The paint is ppg
Recommended temp is 70
It was 70 when I sprayed.

Now the question is how do I respray?
How long do I wait?
Do I sand down?
What grit ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[ThePaintedMan]

Red is a thin pigment as well and sometimes requires more coats if your third basecoat isn't laid on thick enough. I learned this with my Mustang, and the hard way as red is one of the most expensive colors.

With a single stage, you could potentially recoat within 24 hours of the last coat. I'd wait for the expert opinions (Scott, Rick, etc), but with with two stage, you'll want to sand down and re-prep everything. However, you need to give the solvents time to flash off, which can be anywhere from a couple days to a month, depending on how thick the coats were and the type of paint. It may be imperceptible to the touch, but it takes time for paint to fully harden. I've heard the old enamels took months to fully harden. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I would wait at least a week if you want to do it right. Progressively block to 600 like you probably did before, primer, block to 600, clean, prep and re-shoot.

[PanelBilly]

I think you have an expensive guide coat at the point. I've been in your shoes and just looked at it as a chance to make the surface prep even better. There were a few spots where I had compromised and I fixed them the second time around.

[McMark]

What line of PPG? If it's OMNI (the cheap stuff) it doesn't cover well at all.

[914itis]

Yes , Omni. I asked for good stuff and that's what they gave me.

[McMark]

WOW. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Don't ever go back to that paint shop.

[ThePaintedMan]

WOW. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Don't ever go back to that paint shop.

Yeah, sold you the "good stuff," but gave you OMNI.

[a914622]

Is it thin all over or just a door bottom or something little? All over you might want to 400 it down and start over? Is it a driver or do you need it perfect? If you missed the 3rd coat on say the door maybe just a respray on the door.

post us some pics

jcl

[914itis]

No, It is not all over.
I have 3 small spots.
under the driver's door, one fender and a small portion of the hood
I 'ts not visible on pictures.

How do I prep the spots and how long do I wait ?

[ThePaintedMan]

Ah, I know what you did then. You just simply missed those spots, or didn't see that you didn't have enough paint on them before you moved on to clear. Lighting is one of the most overlooked parts to painting a car, and one of the things that still screws me up. Not only do you miss those areas where the primer is still showing through, but you can't see how the paint is laying down as you are spraying the wettest coats. I've gotten better, but because I don't have a dedicated booth with great lights, I make the same mistakes. Don't beat yourself up. Perhaps some of the paint masters will show you some pictures of their booths so you know how a good setup really looks.

As jcl said, probably want to just sand those individual panels back down and start over. Wait several days to a week though for the paint to harden enough. You really don't want to try to touch up just those areas... two stage paint doesn't work like that. You can ask Scotty and Rick about blending, but as far as I know, the whole panel still has to be redone. But hey, it's good practice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[914itis]

Ah, I know what you did then. You just simply missed those spots, or didn't see that you didn't have enough paint on them before you moved on to clear. Lighting is one of the most overlooked parts to painting a car, and one of the things that still screws me up. Not only do you miss those areas where the primer is still showing through, but you can't see how the paint is laying down as you are spraying the wettest coats. I've gotten better, but because I don't have a dedicated booth with great lights, I make the same mistakes. Don't beat yourself up. Perhaps some of the paint masters will show you some pictures of their booths so you know how a good setup really looks.

As jcl said, probably want to just sand those individual panels back down and start over. Wait several days to a week though for the paint to harden enough. You really don't want to try to touch up just those areas... two stage paint doesn't work like that. You can ask Scotty and Rick about blending, but as far as I know, the whole panel still has to be redone. But hey, it's good practice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I am sure that's what it is. Not to mention that the POS paint was hard to spray. It took me about 2 hours to spray 3 coats. I was afraid that it would be too hard for the cler and moved on. That's where I f&&$'d up.

Most if the car looks great. I just need to know how to proceed.

[bulitt]

Paul- You want the Deltron Line from PPG, primer, base and clear. Night and Day.

[914itis]

I spoke to the clown at the paint shop . He told me that I didn't wait long enough for the base coat to dry before spraying the clear .
He previously told me 15 between base and clear is fine, now he says at least 2 hours. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

[timothy_nd28]

I think a step was left out, the sealer coat after the primer. You can also have the primer tinted towards the base coat color

[rick 918-S]

When I had my shop the DuPont rep would pull the same crap. He would always ask: " tell me what you did" So you would run down the scenario including what the manufacturer lists on the product as a recommendation and he would say.... OH! that's where you screwed up, you should have done this..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/jerkit.gif)

Anywho, Now that you have the clear on you should be able to re-coat the car. Wet sand it out with 600 grit, clean it up and reshoot the base coat and re-clear. Some paints require a recoat sealer and some paints are sensitive to solvent penetration and will chicken track or craze when the new solvents are applied. Someone familiar with the Omni line may be a able to comment on that. I haven't used it nor do I have any interest in trying it.

I would put it out in the sun for a couple days though. Be sure it's dry and hard..

You need to develop a system so you don't miss parts of the car like that. I always start on the right front with the hood, work my way down the fender, across the nose then the left hood, fender, left door, I move on to the rear.

Rear lid, (this way your not leaning into the freshest paint you just sprayed) then the targa bar, then the quarter panel, tail panel then the rear lid again, targa bar, then the quarter panel then the right door. door etc. Focus where your applying paint and look for the way it is hitting the panel. Always be aware of where your hose is. Is it getting snagged on the front wheel or jack stand? Are your going to slap it into the side of the car? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

This is the counter clock-wise (I'm left handed) method I use if I am painting the car with the door and lids on which in most cases I am not. But you get the idea. Use a system and don't deviate from it.

[scotty b]

PM sent

Your paint supplier is an absolute idiot. Like Mark said, Omni is the bottom of the barrel paint. I wouldn't put it on my trailer.

It took me about 2 hours to spray 3 coats. I was afraid that it would be too hard for the cler and moved on.

Don't worry about the base being too hard, it isn't an issue. Take your time, look the whole car over with a good light before clearing. 5-10 mintues between base coats if normal. I usually clean my gun, mix the clear and lay it on. That eats up a good 20 minutes, which is plenty of time for the base to flash off.

I think a step was left out, the sealer coat after the primer. You can also have the primer tinted towards the base coat color

Most sealers are nothing more than reduced primer. In fact the Spies and PPG primers I use are mixed whole as a primer, and reduced to be the sealer. IMHO tinting primer is a waste of time and materials. If you use a neutral grey primer/sealer, you can clearly see your first coat of color, how heavy it is, how your spray pattern is etc.