I sprayed a 2 stage paint for the first time. I primed with a 2 k primer cut with thinner, waited an hour spray the base coat, 3 coats then clear coat.

I am not sure If i miss some spots or if it is a reaction, for some reason, I can see the primer under the paint. It's hard to see but can be seen with enough lighting.

It can be see in a few areas.

What did I do wrong and how do I correct this ?

Dont have a clue, but the experts will want to know what brand of paint, what gun nozzle sizes? What color? Thinner??? Do you mean the reducer and catalyst provided by the paint supplier? Did they provide mixing instructions? Temp, humidity?

How many coats of base did you use?

Depending on how thin the base coat is, if the primer is color coated to the base coat (Aka lighter colors use a lighter grey primer), it takes me 2-3 coats of base for complete coverage.

I don't have near the experience as the Scottys, Ricks or others, as I have always done auto body and paint as a hobby, but it sounds like you used a mis-matched primer or used a very light base coat for the job. For example, yellows and oranges take many, MANY more coats to get the depth that darker colors do. What color did you spray would be my first question, assuming that you don't notice any major flaws across the whole panel.

Sometimes you just need more paint.

I sprayed 3 coats, the primer is grey and the paint is red. I am sure o needed to spray more coats.
The paint is ppg
Recommended temp is 70
It was 70 when I sprayed.

Now the question is how do I respray?
How long do I wait?
Do I sand down?
What grit ?

Red is a thin pigment as well and sometimes requires more coats if your third basecoat isn't laid on thick enough. I learned this with my Mustang, and the hard way as red is one of the most expensive colors.

With a single stage, you could potentially recoat within 24 hours of the last coat. I'd wait for the expert opinions (Scott, Rick, etc), but with with two stage, you'll want to sand down and re-prep everything. However, you need to give the solvents time to flash off, which can be anywhere from a couple days to a month, depending on how thick the coats were and the type of paint. It may be imperceptible to the touch, but it takes time for paint to fully harden. I've heard the old enamels took months to fully harden.

I would wait at least a week if you want to do it right. Progressively block to 600 like you probably did before, primer, block to 600, clean, prep and re-shoot.

I think you have an expensive guide coat at the point. I've been in your shoes and just looked at it as a chance to make the surface prep even better. There were a few spots where I had compromised and I fixed them the second time around.

What line of PPG? If it's OMNI (the cheap stuff) it doesn't cover well at all.

Yes , Omni. I asked for good stuff and that's what they gave me.

WOW.

Don't ever go back to that paint shop.

Yeah, sold you the "good stuff," but gave you OMNI.

Is it thin all over or just a door bottom or something little? All over you might want to 400 it down and start over? Is it a driver or do you need it perfect? If you missed the 3rd coat on say the door maybe just a respray on the door.

post us some pics

jcl

No, It is not all over.
I have 3 small spots.
under the driver's door, one fender and a small portion of the hood
I 'ts not visible on pictures.

How do I prep the spots and how long do I wait ?

Ah, I know what you did then. You just simply missed those spots, or didn't see that you didn't have enough paint on them before you moved on to clear. Lighting is one of the most overlooked parts to painting a car, and one of the things that still screws me up. Not only do you miss those areas where the primer is still showing through, but you can't see how the paint is laying down as you are spraying the wettest coats. I've gotten better, but because I don't have a dedicated booth with great lights, I make the same mistakes. Don't beat yourself up. Perhaps some of the paint masters will show you some pictures of their booths so you know how a good setup really looks.

As jcl said, probably want to just sand those individual panels back down and start over. Wait several days to a week though for the paint to harden enough. You really don't want to try to touch up just those areas... two stage paint doesn't work like that. You can ask Scotty and Rick about blending, but as far as I know, the whole panel still has to be redone. But hey, it's good practice

I am sure that's what it is. Not to mention that the POS paint was hard to spray. It took me about 2 hours to spray 3 coats. I was afraid that it would be too hard for the cler and moved on. That's where I f&&$'d up.

Most if the car looks great. I just need to know how to proceed.

Paul- You want the Deltron Line from PPG, primer, base and clear. Night and Day.

I spoke to the clown at the paint shop . He told me that I didn't wait long enough for the base coat to dry before spraying the clear .
He previously told me 15 between base and clear is fine, now he says at least 2 hours.

I think a step was left out, the sealer coat after the primer. You can also have the primer tinted towards the base coat color

When I had my shop the DuPont rep would pull the same crap. He would always ask: " tell me what you did" So you would run down the scenario including what the manufacturer lists on the product as a recommendation and he would say.... OH! that's where you screwed up, you should have done this.....

Anywho, Now that you have the clear on you should be able to re-coat the car. Wet sand it out with 600 grit, clean it up and reshoot the base coat and re-clear. Some paints require a recoat sealer and some paints are sensitive to solvent penetration and will chicken track or craze when the new solvents are applied. Someone familiar with the Omni line may be a able to comment on that. I haven't used it nor do I have any interest in trying it.

I would put it out in the sun for a couple days though. Be sure it's dry and hard..

You need to develop a system so you don't miss parts of the car like that. I always start on the right front with the hood, work my way down the fender, across the nose then the left hood, fender, left door, I move on to the rear.

Rear lid, (this way your not leaning into the freshest paint you just sprayed) then the targa bar, then the quarter panel, tail panel then the rear lid again, targa bar, then the quarter panel then the right door. door etc. Focus where your applying paint and look for the way it is hitting the panel. Always be aware of where your hose is. Is it getting snagged on the front wheel or jack stand? Are your going to slap it into the side of the car?

This is the counter clock-wise (I'm left handed) method I use if I am painting the car with the door and lids on which in most cases I am not. But you get the idea. Use a system and don't deviate from it.

PM sent

Your paint supplier is an absolute idiot. Like Mark said, Omni is the bottom of the barrel paint. I wouldn't put it on my trailer.

It took me about 2 hours to spray 3 coats. I was afraid that it would be too hard for the cler and moved on.

Don't worry about the base being too hard, it isn't an issue. Take your time, look the whole car over with a good light before clearing. 5-10 mintues between base coats if normal. I usually clean my gun, mix the clear and lay it on. That eats up a good 20 minutes, which is plenty of time for the base to flash off.

I think a step was left out, the sealer coat after the primer. You can also have the primer tinted towards the base coat color

Most sealers are nothing more than reduced primer. In fact the Spies and PPG primers I use are mixed whole as a primer, and reduced to be the sealer. IMHO tinting primer is a waste of time and materials. If you use a neutral grey primer/sealer, you can clearly see your first coat of color, how heavy it is, how your spray pattern is etc.

Thanks
Rick, when I wet sand, do I need to go down past the clear to the base? And how long do you wait between base and clear?

Paul,

At this point I think your best bet is to wet sand it to 600 grit (your just looking to take any orange peal off and all the shiny off, you do not need to go down to the base, This should be blocked like the final primer). If you have enough material left do the whole car, If not do each panel effected (Mind that slight slight color difference might be noticeable to a trained eye). If you do this in a couple of days the paint will be softer and easier to sand, then give the car a week to cure you will have a solid "base" to restart. A final once over with a scuffing pad prior to paint and a nice cleaning and your good to hit it again with 3 coats.

Show us a close up pic of what you got now any any spraying defects you noticed and we'll make any suggestions we can to help this next one lay down better.

except you don't need to wait a week before reshooting. the paint is still fresh so the solvents will bond better within a few days as opposed to a week.

Makes sense. I had a fear of solvents escaping while the paint is curing thus causing tiny bubbles (Similar to my paint fiasco with Peters green car).

I am shopping for new paint.

1- whats a good brand paint to buy?

2- I asked about DuPont and i was told that they could not find l32k in 2 stage. is there any other codes used

When I purchased the first paint last year, it was AU1805 (Hugger Orange from TCP Global)
from my understanding it is their code. any help with the code would be appreciated.

If the spots are small enough or there is a small fade line between spray strokes, you can add a little base paint to the clear and reshoot just that area. Usually a touch up gun works better. I hit it with a 600 or 800 grit just so i know wear i have to cover. 2 day is long enough to wait with 2 stage. This is only a light coverage solution. With out seeing it i may not try it, but i have fixed spots that were color sanded thur with this method.

As far as paint, I do like the Dupont with the "euro clear".

The last scrach and squirt i did was with Napa paint. not asbad as i thought it would be.

jcl

Any one heard of LUSID technology paint?

You need to call Scotty. And here is my guess why-
The solvents will be different if you switch manufacturers. Stay with what you have and you can shoot base and clear.
Switch manufacturers and you will have to shoot a sealer, then base, then clear.

Then again, I know lttle about painting. I used omni many times to paint tractors. Single stage. Takes forever to harden. Thats about all it is good for.
So..call Scotty.

First off, when you go in with a code for these cars tell them it is for a VW, not a Porsche. I have had many times when they couldn't find it under Porsche, btu could for VW. I have also had certain colors that did not have a formula in Deltron, but did in Shopline ( ppg's mid range paint ) I'm not a fan of DuPont. It''s overpriced crap IMHO. The ONLY times I have had paint reactions was with DuPont. The solvents are very harsh and will cause issues. Id go with Shopline for cost and quality. If cost is not an object go with Deltron, Spies Hecker, Glasurit, Standox. FWIW Standox IS Spies hecker, all of the chemicals are the same, even the labels are virtually the same.

My recommendation at this point is to just use the Omni. It's already on the car. It just takes more coats to cover, which you already have 3 on. Put another 4-5 coats on then 4-5 of clear if you plan to wet sand it once done. 2-3 if not wet sanding.

Switching paint brands at this point COULD be asking for bigger issues, and to do it properly you would need to reseal the whole car again to get a barrier between the old and new, if you use the Omni, you don't need to reseal, just sand, clean and re-shoot

Glad Rick and Scotty weighed in to give you better advice that I could. The only thing I'd add - if you don't have enough OMNI to finish, you'll obviously have to get more, but make sure you mix the two together first. There are minute differences in how each batch is mixed, and potentially how it will look when it's laid down.

At least, I think that's good advice.

The local supplier here will sell Omni and Deltron to pretty much anybody that walks in the door, but they wont sell you shopline? Certification? Shop Owner? Cant remember why?

Shopline is only available through the " platinum " dealers. They are the ones that have the highest sales, best track record etc. I believe they can carry ONLY PPG product, where some of the other shops also carry different brands. One of the other suppliers in Richmond carries Omni and Deltron but not Shopline. They also carry Standox, DuPont and Sherwin Williams. They aso have no real paint knowledge, they just know how to mix from a formula, but can't hand match, can't tell you jack shart about the product, issues, how to spray etc. Unfortunately I imagine a lot of dealers are like that

double dirka

interweb connection has been twitchy and I had a double post

Update

I manage to sand down to the paint and reprinted the whole car with primer / surfacer.
Once the primer dried, (30 mn)I then sprayed my base, 4 coats and 3 coats of clear. I didn't have any reaction, it all went well. No orange peals, no fish eyes no runs. My only concern is that after spraying the clear, I noticed that its a bit grainy. It was a bit windy , that may be the cause. I never use clear before, I hope they smooth out with wet sand and buffing.

More

Yup. the clear should come out fine. Be careful sanding at creases/panel edges. Its easy to go through the paint. Keep that buffer moving and on low!

Can you put a florescent above and take another shot showing the light? Hard to see the finish in that. I can see it a bit in the first pic on the bottom right.

If the base went on nice and it was just the clear that was bad then I suspect you wont have any problems after the cut and buff.

Yes it is the clear only.

that Is orange peel. Wet sand it. If you want to be ballsy, start with 600, then 1000, then 1500. At that point you CAN buff it, but it will take more effort. Idelaly you should go to 2500 or 3000.


If you want to play it safer, start with the 1500.


If you do start with 600, just use that to knock the height down a bit, don't try anf get it perfectly flat with the 600. Wait until the 1500 to get it flattened down

Thanks all, will start wet sanding in 24 hours and post results.

Not as bad as it looks in the picture.
It wasn't only for the doors. I was not sayiafy with the first paint. I had a few other flaws that needed to be corrected, scratches, peels and nicks. It's all corrected now. If I can get rid of those peels, I can say that I have a decent paint job.

After all, I learned a lot.
Hopefully it will be back by the weekend.

Scotty, What color code was this? you posted this on my previous painting thread.

This is what my color looks like now.

looks like it has a little grey on it

This is what I did for my paint. Granted I had 7 coats on it so I wasnt scared of it going through. Went to 2k and then used 3m rubbing compound.
http://www.autogeek.net/body-shop-compound...CFYN7QgodbQ8A1w
Your local paint store should have it. Get the big bottle (Not the gallon jug). You'll use half of it.

If you dont have a buffer Harbor freight has a cheap one, and they have backing plates cheap as well (Velcro), Get a good stage 2 padand you'll be good to go. I've buffed 4 cars with it. You cant put to much load on it for a long time or youll burn the motor up, but it certainly works good.

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-variab...nder-92623.html
I like it on setting 3.

You could try their foam pads (Yellow is for rubbing compound, black is for final polish)

IIRC that was L32K - Pheonix Red

Ok , I think my old paint was more red. This is more on the orange side.

After 6 hours of wet sanding, buffing and polishing, It's coming to my satisfaction. I still have some orange a bit of orange peal but I like the texture.

Another 4 Hours of wet sand today. that makes it about 10 hrs. its getting smooth. I think I am ready to buff.

I had two instances where i sanded too deep and go under the paint. How fo I address those?
Should I
1- use touch up in those area and wet sand?
or
2-Use a detailed gun spray to blend then wet sand?
or
3- just live with them?

2

DO NOT buff those spots before doing this. now that you have broken through the clear, you will most likely pull it off if you run the buffer over it.

Thanks, is there a time frame to buff after wetsand?

If there isn't I would buff the entire car after correction.