 Complete bare metal restoration. Or not?, Opinions? Pitfalls? |
|
|
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
|
| stevegm |
 Oct 16 2014, 07:39 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States 
 |
We are getting ready to have the little bit of rust in my '71 914-4 fixed. There isn't much rust. The car is in pretty good shape, and was complete when we bought it. Here is the build thread - http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=242895
Just curious on your opinions/experiences: Should we do a complete, bare metal restoration. (i.e., remove every nut, bolt, wiring, etc.). We would do a complete media blast of the entire chassis, which is attractive. or Not remove the suspension, dash, wiring, and work around it. In other words, leave the hard to remove stuff in. With the latter, we would leave a lot of the original paint in the nooks, crannies, etc. But, it would be a lot easier. I know that many say that you should not do a complete tear down restoration, because most people don't finish them. But, I have the time, and want to do it right. The car isn't one I am planning to sell. It is a keeper. Opinions? What are the biggest reasons you see people not finish their complete tear down restorations? How long did you restoration take? What were the biggest slow downs? |
   |
 
|
  |
Replies(1 - 19)
| r_towle |
Oct 16 2014, 07:54 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,588 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
|
The option is really, should we park the car for a decade, or for three years.
I think three years may be a better choice. |
|
|
|
| PanelBilly |
Oct 16 2014, 08:34 PM
Post
#3
|
|
914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,817 Joined: 23-July 06 From: Kent, Wa Member No.: 6,488 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
|
Tearing it all the way down is the best if you're going to change color, but there are so many details and it hard to put a used or worn out part back on that "new" shell so you'll end up hunting parts or detailing the old ones. It is fun.
|
|
|
|
| Cairo94507 |
Oct 16 2014, 08:35 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Michael Group: Members Posts: 9,822 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California
|
I kind of went through the same thoughts with my '71. It looked decent enough to just make it a driver but then I decided that once I started driving it I would not want to take it apart down the road if rust surfaced. I ended up going the full blown disassemble and media blast and put it together. We are not to the put it together part yet but all of the rust is now gone and panels have been replaced as needed to make it straight, tight and perfect. Hopefully another year and it is done. Hopefully.
|
|
|
|
| dangrouche |
Oct 16 2014, 08:36 PM
Post
#5
|
|
dangrouche Group: Members Posts: 550 Joined: 1-May 04 From: San Francisco Bay Area Member No.: 2,012 Region Association: None |
thats why i posed a related question about half a year ago; how long does it take one person to disassemble the car entirely and then give the body to someone else to do the metalwork and paint it, then that lone person later reassembles it. The answer was basically two thousand hours, one-man year, devoting at least 8 hours a day to accomplish the reasembly. so if you are retired and have the right self motivation to work on that car daily basis, 8 hours per day, for at least a year, it is an achievable goal.
|
|
|
|
| Johny Blackstain |
Oct 16 2014, 08:42 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
Just a heads up... I tore my truck down to the frame, cleaned up the rust on the cab & replaced ALL the other sheet metal & was faced with the issue of putting dirty old parts on the truck. Wound up spending more money than I planned buying new doodads everywhere & screwed up- the truck is now too pretty to use as a truck. Lesson learned (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
|
|
|
|
| EdwardBlume |
Oct 17 2014, 06:33 AM
Post
#7
|
|
914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California
|
The value of theses cars are going up and in 30 years will be likely showpieces. I would do the full body restoration. Money be damned.
|
|
|
|
| saigon71 |
Oct 17 2014, 07:00 AM
Post
#8
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,000 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Dillsburg, PA Member No.: 10,428 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
|
I think your answer depends on your planned use of the car when it is done. If you want a show car or garage queen, then the complete tear down is the way to go. If theres really not much rust and you plan on driving the car regularly, leave the "hard stuff" in place and work around it.
I went with the second option: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...gon71++progress I kept finding more rust...so It took me four years, working by myself to produce a solid daily driver. Keep us posted & good luck! |
|
|
|
| bandjoey |
Oct 17 2014, 10:42 AM
Post
#9
|
|
bandjoey Group: Members Posts: 4,926 Joined: 26-September 07 From: Bedford Tx Member No.: 8,156 Region Association: Southwest Region |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
And buy a second 914 to drive while you do the restoration. Otherwise you'll get discouraged in the second year you'll quit and sell it off for a loss of money and future fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) |
|
|
|
| Sleepin |
Oct 17 2014, 10:47 AM
Post
#10
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,647 Joined: 20-November 07 From: Grand Junction, Co. Member No.: 8,357 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
QUOTE(bandjoey @ Oct 17 2014, 10:42 AM)  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And buy a second 914 to drive while you do the restoration. Otherwise you'll get discouraged in the second year you'll quit and sell it off for a loss of money and future fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I have thought about this option a few times! Mine is...well...taken apart right now... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i171.photobucket.com-8357-1413564429.1.jpg) |
|
|
|
| BeatNavy |
Oct 17 2014, 11:19 AM
Post
#11
|
|
Certified Professional Scapegoat Group: Members Posts: 2,924 Joined: 26-February 14 From: Easton, MD Member No.: 17,042 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
QUOTE(Sleepin @ Oct 17 2014, 12:47 PM) QUOTE(bandjoey @ Oct 17 2014, 10:42 AM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And buy a second 914 to drive while you do the restoration. Otherwise you'll get discouraged in the second year you'll quit and sell it off for a loss of money and future fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I have thought about this option a few times! Mine is...well...taken apart right now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I agree with Sleepin's agreeing with Bill's agreeing with Bob (wait...what?). With one caveat: that's what I'm doing and my daily driver keeps being an attention pig with my time so I neglect my project teener. Some of it is self-inflicted ("hey, I really want to install a CHT gauge this weekend") and some of it is not (e.g., replacing the MC). I guess what I'm saying it's good to have one as a driver, but it can also distract you from the project if you have one that's not really solid to begin with. I guess that's one reason they often take so long (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
 |
|
| Sleepin |
Oct 17 2014, 11:31 AM
Post
#12
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,647 Joined: 20-November 07 From: Grand Junction, Co. Member No.: 8,357 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Motivation can be the biggest help. I often find that when I get unmotivated, I need to get a 914 fix somewhere. Once my motivation is back on, it all progresses rather quickly.
I started disassembling mine after RRC 2013. The engine came out, most of the easy stuff came out pretty quickly. Then it sat for 6 months without me touching it. Went to RRC 2014, had some chances to drive and ride in a few, and my motivation came back. Now it is mostly the money aspect that is slowing me down (new house, 3 kids etc.). I tore it apart expecting a 5 year build. Not too ambitious, but not a decade. If it gets done sooner, great. If it gets done in 6..well that's just too long. The nice thing about not being in a hurry is that you can shop for deals. The bad part is that I don't have much patience and barely any self control. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
|
|
|
| BeatNavy |
Oct 17 2014, 11:35 AM
Post
#13
|
|
Certified Professional Scapegoat Group: Members Posts: 2,924 Joined: 26-February 14 From: Easton, MD Member No.: 17,042 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
QUOTE(Sleepin @ Oct 17 2014, 01:31 PM) Then it sat for 6 months without me touching it. That's kind of where I am right now. I better not tell my wife how long this is likely to take if everyone else's experience is a guide... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) |
|
|
|
| CptTripps |
Oct 17 2014, 11:40 AM
Post
#14
|
|
:: Punch and Pie :: Group: Members Posts: 3,584 Joined: 26-December 04 From: Mentor, OH Member No.: 3,342 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Took me about a week to break everything down and strip the tub. Got it on a rotisserie and to the sandblaster the next week, got it back in primer from the sandblaster and took it directly to a body guy. He had the car for 2 weeks and it came back to me in paint.
So the short answer is: It can be done quickly...just make sure you have your checkbook handy. For the above steps, it cost me about $4K. And I think I got one hell of a good deal. |
|
|
|
| saigon71 |
Oct 17 2014, 02:10 PM
Post
#15
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,000 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Dillsburg, PA Member No.: 10,428 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
QUOTE(Sleepin @ Oct 17 2014, 01:31 PM) Motivation can be the biggest help. I often find that when I get unmotivated, I need to get a 914 fix somewhere. Once my motivation is back on, it all progresses rather quickly. I started disassembling mine after RRC 2013. The engine came out, most of the easy stuff came out pretty quickly. Then it sat for 6 months without me touching it. Went to RRC 2014, had some chances to drive and ride in a few, and my motivation came back. Now it is mostly the money aspect that is slowing me down (new house, 3 kids etc.). I tore it apart expecting a 5 year build. Not too ambitious, but not a decade. If it gets done sooner, great. If it gets done in 6..well that's just too long. The nice thing about not being in a hurry is that you can shop for deals. The bad part is that I don't have much patience and barely any self control. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Good point on motivation...and it's the reason it took me four years to finish. I got a bit overwhelmed by the never ending scope of the project more than once and had to step away. |
|
|
|
| boxsterfan |
Oct 17 2014, 02:17 PM
Post
#16
|
|
914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
If you don't replace the floor panels and get into the cowl area (besides really getting those longs and making sure there is no rust, spraying a rust convertor, etc...) then you are leaving rust behind in the chassis.
I know I saw a video somewhere of it (Restoration Design?) where they had what looked like a VERY clean 914 chassis but when he took off the floor panels, there was rust all in between them and the rest of the chassis. This is of course driven by our non-treated steel and poor seam sealers used back in the day. |
|
|
|
| PanelBilly |
Oct 17 2014, 02:35 PM
Post
#17
|
|
914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,817 Joined: 23-July 06 From: Kent, Wa Member No.: 6,488 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
|
QUOTE(Sleepin @ Oct 17 2014, 09:47 AM) QUOTE(bandjoey @ Oct 17 2014, 10:42 AM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And buy a second 914 to drive while you do the restoration. Otherwise you'll get discouraged in the second year you'll quit and sell it off for a loss of money and future fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I have thought about this option a few times! Mine is...well...taken apart right now... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i171.photobucket.com-8357-1413564429.1.jpg) I see lots of stuff to take apart! |
|
|
|
| stevegm |
Oct 17 2014, 03:26 PM
Post
#18
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States
|
QUOTE(boxsterfan @ Oct 17 2014, 04:17 PM) If you don't replace the floor panels and get into the cowl area (besides really getting those longs and making sure there is no rust, spraying a rust convertor, etc...) then you are leaving rust behind in the chassis. I know I saw a video somewhere of it (Restoration Design?) where they had what looked like a VERY clean 914 chassis but when he took off the floor panels, there was rust all in between them and the rest of the chassis. This is of course driven by our non-treated steel and poor seam sealers used back in the day. The pans on this car are good (we striped out the tar). Cowl? No apparent rust. We have looked quite a bit. But, any advice on where to hunt it down would be greatly appreciated. |
|
|
|
| mepstein |
Oct 17 2014, 03:36 PM
Post
#19
|
|
914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,314 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
|
QUOTE(boxsterfan @ Oct 17 2014, 04:17 PM) If you don't replace the floor panels and get into the cowl area (besides really getting those longs and making sure there is no rust, spraying a rust convertor, etc...) then you are leaving rust behind in the chassis. I know I saw a video somewhere of it (Restoration Design?) where they had what looked like a VERY clean 914 chassis but when he took off the floor panels, there was rust all in between them and the rest of the chassis. This is of course driven by our non-treated steel and poor seam sealers used back in the day. Btdt - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) |
|
|
|
| TJB/914 |
Oct 17 2014, 04:25 PM
Post
#20
|
|
Mid-Engn. Group: Members Posts: 4,336 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Plymouth & Petoskey, MI Member No.: 346 Region Association: Upper MidWest
|
QUOTE(PanelBilly @ Oct 17 2014, 04:35 PM) QUOTE(Sleepin @ Oct 17 2014, 09:47 AM) QUOTE(bandjoey @ Oct 17 2014, 10:42 AM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And buy a second 914 to drive while you do the restoration. Otherwise you'll get discouraged in the second year you'll quit and sell it off for a loss of money and future fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) : I have thought about this option a few times! Mine is...well...taken apart right now... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i171.photobucket.com-8357-1413564429.1.jpg) I see lots of stuff to take apart! Hi Eric, BTW: BMO went out yesterday. Back to subject: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) I agree, have a 2nd one to drive like Paul B (MI buddy) and plan on, 5-years + to restore to CW condition. Lots of money & double your estimate. 2,500 min. # of personal man-hours of your time. Outside services you can't do, budget $5k to $10K depends on your skill level. Show quality paint is about $15K to $20K in today's market. My best suggestion is buy one already completed and you will spend 1/2 of what your original budget was. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Personal info. I did mine about 1990 (completed) when you could buy NOS parts from the dealer, today they are not available unless you use repo parts (good stuff though) so collect the parts first before starting the restoration. I have $20K in my restored 914 and today it would cost $50-$80K in todays costs. Tom |
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 8th June 2024 - 03:51 PM |
Invision Power Board
v9.1.4 © 2024 IPS, Inc.