 Roll Bar in a street car discussion |
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| Scott S |
 Apr 14 2016, 10:21 AM
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#1
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Small Member  Group: Members Posts: 1,698 Joined: 30-April 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 633  |
Hi All. I posted this over on Pelican, thought it might be relevant here too.
I know there have been many discussions on the safety putting a roll bar/cage in a street driven car. I am not a racer, so it really didn't pertain to me at all. However, yesterday I saw first hand the injuries that can occur. 16 year old girl driving her dads Miata with him in the passenger seat. There is speculation that she was driving on her permit, practicing for her drivers license. She was driving at a slow speed, simply making a right hand turn on to a side street. She clipped the curb - something we all have done. Curb was tall enough that it shook the car pretty good (again, speculation, but knowing the corner I would guess a wheel would have been bent and the car knocked out of alignment ). Both are in the hospital with concussions, one of them needed several stiches from injuries caused by their heads impacting the roll bar. I don't know if the dad autocrossed the car or what, or if the bar was just for looks. I do know the car had stock seat belts. Scary stuff. |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| ThePaintedMan |
Apr 14 2016, 11:12 AM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,887 Joined: 6-September 11 From: St. Petersburg, FL Member No.: 13,527 Region Association: South East States 
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QUOTE I don't know if the dad autocrossed the car or what, or if the bar was just for looks. I do know the car had stock seat belts. Scary stuff. I drive my car as little on the street as possible since it has a cage. But that is a BIG no-no. If it has a cage, it gets proper harnesses, no questions. |
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| brant |
Apr 14 2016, 11:29 AM
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#3
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,011 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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sad story...
I hope there is no further medical complications a brain injury over a driving lesson would be a terrible outcome |
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| SirAndy |
Apr 14 2016, 11:48 AM
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#4
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,257 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Proper padding and non-retractable seat belts are a must for a street car with a cage.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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| Larmo63 |
Apr 14 2016, 12:25 PM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,267 Joined: 3-March 14 From: San Clemente, Ca Member No.: 17,068 Region Association: Southern California |
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| jasons |
Apr 14 2016, 02:26 PM
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#6
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Jackstand Extraordinaire Group: Members Posts: 2,011 Joined: 19-August 04 From: Scottsdale, AZ Member No.: 2,573 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Apr 14 2016, 10:48 AM)  Proper padding and non-retractable seat belts are a must for a street car with a cage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) I suppose you shouldn't be using a helmet as rollbar protection? It doesn't make much sense to me that you would use one safety device to protect yourself from another safety device. |
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| SirAndy |
Apr 14 2016, 02:34 PM
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#7
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,257 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(jasons @ Apr 14 2016, 01:26 PM) QUOTE(SirAndy @ Apr 14 2016, 10:48 AM) Proper padding and non-retractable seat belts are a must for a street car with a cage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) I suppose you shouldn't be using a helmet as rollbar protection? It doesn't make much sense to me that you would use one safety device to protect yourself from another safety device. Wut? With proper padding, a rollbar is not more dangerous than any other hard object in a car made of, wait for it, mostly metal! Take any car with a fixed roof, remove the padding/plastic/cover from the frame above the door and what do you see? Metal ... The rollbar in my 914 is no closer to my head than the door frame in my 2002 Jetta. Or 2012 Tiguan. Plenty of places to hit with my head in those cars. And i don't see anyone here driving around with a helmet in their daily driver. Well, except Larmo maybe ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| jasons |
Apr 14 2016, 02:52 PM
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#8
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Jackstand Extraordinaire Group: Members Posts: 2,011 Joined: 19-August 04 From: Scottsdale, AZ Member No.: 2,573 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Apr 14 2016, 01:34 PM) Wut? With proper padding, a rollbar is not more dangerous than any other hard object in a car made of, wait for it, mostly metal! Take any car with a fixed roof, remove the padding/plastic/cover from the frame above the door and what do you see? Metal ... The rollbar in my 914 is no closer to my head than the door frame in my 2002 Jetta. Or 2012 Tiguan. Plenty of places to hit with my head in those cars. And i don't see anyone here driving around with a helmet in their daily driver. Well, except Larmo maybe ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) My impression was you shouldn't use a roll bar without a helmet. Like I said, that doesn't make much sense, since they are both intended to protect you. Your comment about the belts and padding makes more sense. |
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| EdwardBlume |
Apr 14 2016, 06:39 PM
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#9
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California
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A bar needs to be padded and ideally not within head contact by harness fitment, seat placement, padding or other methods.
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| DBCooper |
Apr 14 2016, 10:16 PM
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#10
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14's in the 13's with ATTITUDE Group: Members Posts: 3,079 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Dazed and Confused Member No.: 2,618 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Apr 14 2016, 12:34 PM) The rollbar in my 914 is no closer to my head than the door frame in my 2002 Jetta. Or 2012 Tiguan. Plenty of places to hit with my head in those cars. You sure about that? When you put a rollbar or cage into any car by definition it's inside the existing sheet metal, meaning you've reduced the clearance inside the sides and below the roof, in all directions closer to your head. Comparing Jettas to 914's is apples and oranges, the only correct comparison is Jetta with roll bar and Jetta without, or 914 with and without. If your head is closer to something rigid there's more likelihood first that it will be hit in an impact, and then that the impact be of more force. Same car, less clearance, means more risk and more damage. |
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| Elliot Cannon |
Apr 14 2016, 11:15 PM
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#11
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914 Guru Group: Retired Members Posts: 8,487 Joined: 29-December 06 From: Paso Robles Ca. (Central coast) Member No.: 7,407 Region Association: None
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Reasons to have a roll bar/cage in your street car.
1. To protect you when your car rolls over. (Make sure it's well padded). 2. To add rigidity to the chassis. 3. To make you look like "Joe Cool / Ricky Racer". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) |
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| Garland |
Apr 14 2016, 11:51 PM
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#12
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Restoration Fanatic Group: Members Posts: 1,413 Joined: 8-January 04 From: ......Michigan...... Member No.: 1,535 Region Association: Upper MidWest
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I remember going down hill tobogganing (holds 4) and one guy brought a helmet.
4 riders, one with helmet, no way. If there's a roll bar looking at your forehead in a 914, put on a helmet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) |
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| wes |
Apr 15 2016, 12:20 AM
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#13
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wes Group: Members Posts: 1,591 Joined: 8-December 07 From: Ukiah Ca Member No.: 8,436 Region Association: Northern California
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I can't wait to see a guy driving down the street in the 914 with the helmet on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)
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| Geezer914 |
Apr 15 2016, 05:51 AM
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#14
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Geezer914 Group: Members Posts: 2,010 Joined: 18-March 09 From: Salem, NJ Member No.: 10,179 Region Association: North East States
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If you are going to do all the work to put in a roll bar, you should put in a 5 pt. harness and proper seats to keep you from flopping around. In most states it is illegal to drive with a helmet on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)
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| EdwardBlume |
Apr 15 2016, 06:34 AM
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#15
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California
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QUOTE(wes @ Apr 14 2016, 11:20 PM) I can't wait to see a guy driving down the street in the 914 with the helmet on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) I've seen it. On the way home from an AX down 101. Looks funny |
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| SirAndy |
Apr 15 2016, 11:14 AM
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#16
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,257 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(DBCooper @ Apr 14 2016, 09:16 PM) You sure about that? Yes, i am. Last time i checked, my 914 didn't have any metal above the door from the factory, so no, it's not apples and oranges. The cage adds metal where a sedan already has metal. Which makes this a valid comparison. I did in fact compare the head clearance between the cage in my 914 and my other two cars, the Jetta and Tiguan (Yes, i'm weird that way) and they are pretty much the same. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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| DBCooper |
Apr 15 2016, 11:19 AM
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#17
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14's in the 13's with ATTITUDE Group: Members Posts: 3,079 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Dazed and Confused Member No.: 2,618 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Apr 15 2016, 09:14 AM) QUOTE(DBCooper @ Apr 14 2016, 09:16 PM) You sure about that? Yes, i am. Last time i checked, my 914 didn't have any metal above the door from the factory, so no, it's not apples and oranges. The cage adds metal where a sedan already has metal. Which makes this a valid comparison. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Wait, Andy, you say the 914 has no metal above the door from the factory, but you're going to add some there, spaced so it's even closer to your head, and that's going to be as safe as before, when there was none? Sorry, I don't follow. |
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| stugray |
Apr 15 2016, 11:29 AM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,825 Joined: 17-September 09 From: Longmont, CO Member No.: 10,819 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(DBCooper @ Apr 15 2016, 11:19 AM) QUOTE(SirAndy @ Apr 15 2016, 09:14 AM) QUOTE(DBCooper @ Apr 14 2016, 09:16 PM) You sure about that? Yes, i am. Last time i checked, my 914 didn't have any metal above the door from the factory, so no, it's not apples and oranges. The cage adds metal where a sedan already has metal. Which makes this a valid comparison. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Wait, Andy, you say the 914 has no metal above the door from the factory, but you're going to add some there, spaced so it's even closer to your head, and that's going to be as safe as before, when there was none? Sorry, I don't follow. He is SAYING that the metal that is NOW in his 914 is NO CLOSER than the METAL in his other cars. I also have more headroom in my 914 than in ANY of my other cars except my Suburban. I have a full rollcage in my car that I drive on the street. It is covered everywhere that my head or arms could make contact with the expensive high density SFI rated foam padding. Everywhere else it has the less expensive low density foam. It is difficult to see any piece of my roll structure metal because it is ALL covered. |
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| SirAndy |
Apr 15 2016, 01:40 PM
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#19
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,257 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(stugray @ Apr 15 2016, 10:29 AM) He is SAYING that the metal that is NOW in his 914 is NO CLOSER than the METAL in his other cars. I also have more headroom in my 914 than in ANY of my other cars except my Suburban. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Finally, apparently i DO sometimes make sense (to some people) ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| r_towle |
Apr 15 2016, 02:51 PM
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#20
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,705 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Apr 15 2016, 03:40 PM) QUOTE(stugray @ Apr 15 2016, 10:29 AM) He is SAYING that the metal that is NOW in his 914 is NO CLOSER than the METAL in his other cars. I also have more headroom in my 914 than in ANY of my other cars except my Suburban. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Finally, apparently i DO sometimes make sense (to some people) ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Stu, just Stu. |
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