 2.0 Heads Opinions Please, Sodium or SS |
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| MarkV |
  May 19 2005, 04:24 PM
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#1
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Fear the Jack Stands  Group: Members Posts: 1,493 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Sunny Tucson, AZ Member No.: 154 Region Association: None  |
Len Hoffman has my 2.0 heads. He is repairing cracked plug bosses, converting to 12MM plugs, installing 8 new seats.
I am considering dual springs new chromoly retainers. The heads have new (expensive) sodium exhaust valves. Len doesn't recommend sodium valves with dual springs, he says change the to SS valves. So, should I keep the sodium valves & stock springs or go SS with double springs & new retainers? How much performance do double springs make? The engine is a fairly fresh 2056 with Dellorto 40's and a stockish Webcam. I have the parts to convert back to Djet but will probably drive it with the carbs for a while first. The car is a weekend fun car & not a daily driver. |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| ArtechnikA |
May 19 2005, 04:29 PM
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#2
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
what's your anticipated rev range?
my impression has been that dual springs are good for controlling valves at high revs, and sodium valves are good for transferring heat at high loads (like a top-gear freeway cruiser). so - are you building a weekend AX screamer, or a weekend long-trip cruiser? past that - i'm unqualified to express an opinion on T-IV heads, so i'll bow out and let the real experts take over... |
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| lagunero |
May 19 2005, 04:32 PM
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#3
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Donkey Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,042 Joined: 8-January 04 From: orange county,ca Member No.: 1,531  |
Jake recommended I go with SS valves so I went with Sodium. J/K I got the SS and HD springs. I really don't remember the reasons he offered but I trust his opinion.
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| ChrisFoley |
May 19 2005, 04:45 PM
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#4
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,937 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None 
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Double springs don't make any performance. They just put more stress on the entire valvetrain. the only thing they are useful for is controlling heavy valve assy. at high revs. With your mild cam they would be totally the wrong thing to add. HD singles would make much more sense and probably be ok with sodium filled valves. OTOH, the SS will be lighter due to smaller stem diameter, and allow even more revs if the cam could support it. |
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| Allan |
May 19 2005, 04:46 PM
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#5
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Teenerless Weenie Group: Members Posts: 8,373 Joined: 5-July 04 From: Western Mesopotamia Member No.: 2,304 Region Association: Southern California |
I seem to remember that they dissipate heat well but if they fail it is catastrophic. I have sodium filled but my car wont rev to the sky.
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| redshift |
May 19 2005, 05:27 PM
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#6
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Bless the Hell out of you! Group: Members Posts: 10,926 Joined: 29-June 03 Member No.: 869 |
Yes. Sodium filled valves are a catastrophic failure point...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) I thought you only used double spring when the valve mass calculated out to need them at whatever your redline is.. like Chris said, but even on lighter stuff, that revs higher? If they were chrome though, and outside.. that'd be cool! M |
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| SLITS |
May 19 2005, 05:34 PM
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#7
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
In the old days, metallurgy wasn't what it is today. The heat transfer accorded by sodium filled valves is no longer germain. With today's metallurgy of both the valve and seat material, SS will give you as much or more longetivity and they cost a SHIT pile less.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. |
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| redshift |
May 19 2005, 05:48 PM
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#8
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Bless the Hell out of you! Group: Members Posts: 10,926 Joined: 29-June 03 Member No.: 869 |
.... and he's a shit wizz-ard, with a gameshow shirt.
M This post has been edited by redshift: May 19 2005, 05:49 PM |
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| Bleyseng |
May 19 2005, 06:19 PM
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#9
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,035 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Go with the SS valve and HD valve springs as the extra springs won't do you any good and can be harmful to your "stockish" valvetrain.
Sell the sodium valves..... |
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| messix |
May 19 2005, 06:28 PM
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#10
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
not sure if they apply here, but new hot thing in v8 valve springs, is the beehive ovoid spring. it has great dampening properties.
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| Jake Raby |
May 19 2005, 06:34 PM
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#11
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Let Len supply you with his valves- They come from me..
Sodium filled valves are a HUGE mistake, stainless technology of today far supercedes the sodium of yesteryear.. FWIW- 85% of the cams that *should* be used on the streeet do not need dual springs.. While you have it apart get a cam designed to compliment the heads and since Len is doing them for you- I have that cam absolutely. |
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| Joe Bob |
May 19 2005, 06:40 PM
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#12
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Retired admin, banned a few times Group: Members Posts: 17,427 Joined: 24-December 02 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 5 Region Association: None |
God I hope so....ten years ago I bought some sooper dooper heads from that fuckwad Mark Stephens....LEAKED like a MOFO....
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| MarkV |
May 19 2005, 06:57 PM
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#13
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Fear the Jack Stands Group: Members Posts: 1,493 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Sunny Tucson, AZ Member No.: 154 Region Association: None |
Yea, thats kind of what it looks like I will do. Guess I should have asked around here before I got a price on cutting for dual springs. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) |
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| SGB |
May 19 2005, 07:06 PM
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#14
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just visiting Group: Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 8-March 03 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 404 Region Association: South East States |
B'lieve I'de go with the SS valves, single spring. No need to overload the heads with 2 springs. You get the avantages of Len's work and advanced metallurgy. If'n you wanna, of course a cam from Jake would be the final solution...
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| Cap'n Krusty |
May 19 2005, 07:32 PM
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#15
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
A 'stockish" WebCam ain't gonna get it with D-jet, so you might as well make the best of the carbs. I don't care what WebCam says, I have to make cars driveable (and, in many cases, legal), and all their theoretical claims don't make a bit of sense in the real world. Even the mildest of their non-stock grinds make unacceptably high HCs, and don't idle right without screwing with the MPS, and THAT opens the door to all kinds of nasty problems. High HCs is high unburned fuel, and that translates to poor power and bad fuel economy. The Cap'n
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| Jake Raby |
May 19 2005, 07:34 PM
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#16
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Always upgrade to a single spring with nice chromoly retainers. I have seen so many stock retainers fail that I no longer use them at all, same with springs.
The single springs that Len has are the same as the ones I sell/use and so are the retainers.. Stock springs and retainers are only good for stock cams, any performance upgrade should include better springs and retainers. Capn' I had no luck with their off the shelf grinds either, you should try one of mine one day- The only alterations are on the exhaust side of things and they work very nicely with D or L jet... Web cam does NOT build engines, probably50% of their grinds and the feedback on the TIV has came from yours truly... Cam grinders seldom know the best cam for your engine- |
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| MarkV |
May 19 2005, 07:49 PM
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#17
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Fear the Jack Stands Group: Members Posts: 1,493 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Sunny Tucson, AZ Member No.: 154 Region Association: None |
The cam is a 118S ?? |
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| MecGen |
May 19 2005, 07:50 PM
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#18
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8 Easy Steps Group: Members Posts: 848 Joined: 8-January 05 From: Laval, Canada Member No.: 3,421 |
Hey
I have had SS valves for 12 years now...no problems with my mild 2.0l at all. Hey Z
I guarenty I got reamed worse then you, any body know what happened to him? I don't really care just curious.. Anyways I plan to use SS valves with new single springs and retainers for a bone stock 2.0l. Good luck with it (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif) Later Joe (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) |
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| Mueller |
May 19 2005, 07:51 PM
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#19
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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supposedly got into long haul trucking....landed a gig hauling for Wal-Mart or something like that.... |
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| MecGen |
May 19 2005, 08:22 PM
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#20
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8 Easy Steps Group: Members Posts: 848 Joined: 8-January 05 From: Laval, Canada Member No.: 3,421 |
At least on the road he can't touch a T1V head again.
Thanx Joe |
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