RHD 914, what's value of a rhd 914 Options

[9146-racer]

Hi, I haven't been on here for ages, sorry to have missed you all.
I have just been reading an article on the RHD Crayford cars and really would appreciate a value for one.
My car is a 1969 Crayford, in fact I understand it to be the first one ever.

I've owned it for about 30 years and now am considering parting with it, but what's it worth?

[JeffBowlsby]

Depends on condition and numerous other factors. You’ll need to post a lot more photos/details to get meaningful responses.

[9146-racer]

Ok, car was delivered new as a LHD, 1700cc, in tangarine to Garage in Dussledorf where it was purchased by David McMullan and taken back to the Crayford car factory in Westerham, Kent. where it was transformed into Right Hand Drive configuration.

Then sold by Malay Garage , after passing through a couple of owners in ended up with a Mr.Terry Forbisher from Norfolk/Suffolk area.

He raced it for a few years before reselling.

Mike Smith, of PRS UK, 356 guru, owned it sometime after Terry and whilst fitted with a Formula super VEE engine of 1600cc, weir solex PII40 carbs it was raced at Mallory park by Trevor Messett, a great Porsche "pedlar" (unfortunately now deceased) where it apparently took a lap record for a 1600cc Porsche.

I came across it a poor state some years later and restored it to use as an every day car.
Now running a 1911cc engine, still on solex twin choke carbs.

I parked it up in my barn about 12 years ago as I was racing my 914/6 and didn't have time to play with it.

I had to have a rear floor section put in a couple of years ago, just before taking it to the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart for the 50th anniversary of the 914---where it was greeted well by the original guys that built the 914s back in the day.

I feel this car should be returned to it's original tangerine colour, and now needing a few rust bubbles on front scuttle in front of windscreen, this is the prime time.

Now in my 70's and too many other projects I feel it may be time to pass this rare car to someone with more time.

Any indication of value would be appreciated.
Thanks

Ian
ian9146@gmail.com

[Mikey914]

What does the dash look like?

[9146-racer]

Here is the dash

[9146-racer]

just before heading to Stuttgart for the 50th.

[Mark Henry]

It depends on the condition and what it's worth to you and the buyer.
You put a value on the RHD kit, then add the price of a comparable LHD 914.
Hard to say what the RHD kit is worth, they don't make them anymore and they didn't make many to start with.

This is one you're likely able to do better at auction or BaT.

[Big Len]

I would think it would have more value staying in the U.K. or with other countries that normally drive that configuration.

[horizontally-opposed]

It's funny, as I'm a big fan of Tangerine 914s and (generally) not as crazy about white 914s, but this car looks great in this color with this ride height and these wheels in these finishes. Not sure what it is, but there's something about it. I don't know as I'd go back to Tangerine if the color change was done well. Part of the car's journey…

RHD and the lap record are more cool things in this car's history, as is the Super Vee engine. I'd want to confirm that 1600cc lap record and include that engine in the sale, if at all feasible. And the more period pics, the better.

Agree BaT makes a lot of sense for this car. As to value, who knows? $20-30k? Or is this something more down the road in terms of interest (and configuration…) of some of the real high-point 914-4s? I have no idea, but I am sure curious.

Above all else: Cool car, and thanks for sharing it!

[wonkipop]

i recognize that dashboard.

you can count the # of crayfords cars left on the fingers of a one armed man.

think it has been established only were 11 done.

there used to be two in australia in the 70s and 80s.
i knew the owner of one of them well before he passed away in the 2000s.
car survives in sydney.
other car disappeared from view in the 90s.
it may still be here in aus - no-one has seen it for a long time.
both 73 cars that arrived in 74 via malaya motors (i think - there was some deal via malaya or an english dealer with crayfords that was the ordering set up).

a guy on this site, lives in sydney i met last year, was trying to track down the crayfords cars. don't know what he came up with survivor nos.

there was a advert a few years ago for a green crayfords car with severe rust issues for sale in UK. i'd be surprised if anyone could realistically have saved that car.
another car found its way back to the UK a few years ago, advert claimed it was a crayfords converted car that went to Malaysia? or Singapore? via Western Australia?

the crayfords car that went to Hong Kong was spotted in Macua in the 80s by the late owner of the crayfords car here that i knew. i saw photos of it 25 years ago. that car was already a rolling wreck at that time. i doubt it survived.

my guess is there are only three of them left on the road globally.
1 here. 2 in the UK (incl yours)? and maybe 2 more not on road (1 other here?/1 in uk).

yours is #1.

a rhd crayfords car featured on the cover of CAR magazine july 71 .
though that car was blue with a tan interior. thats a special car too i guess.
seemed to be the one all the magazine road tests were done in.
probably long gone and recycled as a toaster by now.

its a car with great historical value.
i don't know what its worth.
but its important.

the only other cars, converted in that era when the cars were new were the two 6s that came into aus via the distributor. at min. one of those was converted here in the distributors workshop. there are stories that the other one came in via japan already converted to rhd. i've only seen the one that came in via japan. the conversion was quite different in detailed appearance compared to the crayfords cars. the other one was for many years an "urban legend" - said to have been written off in a head on crash.
but the man in sydney says it exists and has been the subject of a long rebuild and restoration. he showed me some photos of it. so its still out there. its conversion might be different again since it was done here for sure.

nice car by the way.

ps
i think its difficult for folks in the USA to understand the history of the RHD conversion thing. matters get confused by the industry that rose in Aus in the 80s and 90s converting second hand 914s imported from the USA. that was an aberration caused by a variety of economic and regulatory factors and resulted in a batch of rhd cars 20 years later either by individuals in backyard garages or an assortment of cottage industry operators. before that, there was no RHD conversion going on re 914s. there were just the crayfords cars - all of which were ordered by original purchasers of new cars and who lived in ex british colonies in the far east or were resident uk citizens. that is what distinguishes the cars. crayfords started and ended with the cars when new - straight from the factory.

[JeffBowlsby]

@dr914@autoatlanta.com

[wonkipop]

aus car dashboard.
photos from when it was for sale a decade ago.
same stitched seam around joint with instrument pod binnacle.
it was the only way it could be done in those days?

all the later aus 80s cars pretty much have one piece vinyl skinned dash tops.
many are padded.

the crayfords cars dashtops are solid. vinyl? more or less stretched and glued directly over a fibreglass moulding.

your #1 car would be like that?

the other white car in aus that has disappeared had the same dashtop.
i believe crayfords used leather and not vinyl but not 100% sure on that.

the 6 that i have seen and still see from time to time that was one of the distributor's cars had a similar hand stitched seam around the binnacle, but the dash top was padded under the covering just like a factory car - and included the ashtray. crayfords deleted the ash tray.

its pretty easy to tell a crayfords car from the numerous aus conversions dating 20 years or so later in time.

also i noticed the badging on the back of your car.
i take it thats original with the deletion of vw badging and the addition of neat little crayfords badge (with homage to henry ford, crayfords had links to ford?). the cars that were here both had the the factory vw-porsche european badge on the back. no crayfords badge. very unique to have that crayfords badge.

[jim_hoyland]

There are {were ?) two RHDS IN Singapore. This orange one belonged to Meng Fong; he subsequently passed away and the car was sold.
The second 914 is yellow, owner not know to me. I have a pic of both together

[jim_hoyland]

Here ya go; Meng had a serious crash in the above 914. A shell was shipped from CA to Singapore where the car was completely rebuilt; hence the new look

[Tom_T]

As Len & wonkipop said - I really believe that this is a question for the collector car experts from the UK, OZ (Australia), or a Kiwi (New Zealand), etc. where Crawford RHD conversions were sold.

Aside from condition - if you can document the provenance of prior owners, history & that it truly is #1 or a very early Crawford - then you'll have a highly collectable & rare example.

Perhaps Sotheby's UK can help you on that, as well as for the sale by auction for best price. Think high end & rare cars - not the BaT & smaller auctions & consignment dealers, but it will need to be in tip-top like for the 50th.

If the #1 Crawford, then that should be a fairly valuable car, & different than anything that we've seen here in the USA, Canada, Europe.

It certainly is not the value of the car plus a no longer available conversion kit alone.

Good luck on the research & sale - or insurance appraisal if you're keeping it as a collectable show car.

And .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)


PS - You might also want to check with the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart to see if they would have an interest in the #1 Crawford, assuming that you can document that.

Cheers Mate! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Mark Henry]

There are {were ?) two RHDS IN Singapore. This orange one belonged to Meng Fong; he subsequently passed away and the car was sold.

That sucks, I didn't know Meng had passed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[wonkipop]

the yellow car in the garage next to the red meng car went back to the UK.
it is claimed in sale advert that it was a crayfords car, 75 model. there is a story a 75 or 74 came originally to aus direct from crayfords to western australia but could never be road registered. the story went it was sold to someone in singapore in 1980 and left the country.

would make sense as the two 73s that came into aus via crayfords as first owner cars were the last gasp and last chance. something occurred in relation to the ADRs (australian design rules) that meant the cars after that would not meet standards, but not certain on exact reasons. so the 75 model or was it a 74, no one is clear, had registration difficulties. (australia is funny about putting cars on the road, as there was provision for what is called a personal import, those cars don't have to meet all the ADRs, but for some reason that third car didn't make it in the right way).

its known 1 went to hong kong, likely thats the macau car that was seen in the 80s already a rolling wreck. and 1 went to singapore or malaysia or 1 each to singapore and malaysia. possibly the red meng car? that then ended up rebodied as said above?
the red car has wiper set up reversed. crayfords never bothered with that in all the cars i have seen. nor have i seen anyone reverse the wiper set up in later conversions down here.

i last saw the white car that was in australia just before i left for the USA in 1988.
i had tried to buy it in 1986 or 87. the owner of the car made contact with the organiser of the first australian 914 register in the early to mid 90s, so he still had it then.
i've not seen either him or the car since.

the green crayfords car had two owners up until the late 90s.
i was offered it by the second owner, the guy who established the first version of the 914 aus register. i agonized but decided to keep my 1.8, too much sentiment attached and not enough funds for two cars.

as far as i know no crayfords cars went to NZ.
they are a very rare beast because they were unbelievably expensive back in their day.
no rational person ordered one, you had to be obsessively fixated on having a 914.
it was cheaper to buy a new 911 in aus than do the crayfords thing.
how many people would do that?
i imagine the story is the same re uk cars.
what would you have. a crayfords RHD 914/4 or a factory RHD 911 for same or even less$?
i don't believe any 6s were done by crayfords but i might be wrong.

here is what i have.

the metallic green 73, 2.0 still in aus.



white 73, 2.0 was in aus, still may be. last seen by me in 88.
(in 88 it still looked like it did in modern motor article, graphics, unique aftermarket alloys, front spoiler, blacked out chrome targa trim, windscreen protector clips - thats real aussie stuff you fixed a mesh screen in front of windscreen for the all too common windscreen destruction flying rock moment when you would have had to ship in a screen from europe at great cost because the aussie distributor had you by the nuts, in 88 still untouched and intact - even remember how much it sold for in circa 86 - $17,500 AUD, i was trying to haggle down to 15K, got walked right over the top of).



yellow car parked next to meng car, back in uk. (may have been the third aus car?).



the green uk crayfords car in a bad way.

[9146-racer]

The script and badge were not origanally fitted to the rear my car by Crayfords
Ian

[wonkipop]

who cares about the badges. they are cute.

its a great car.
i wish i could buy it.
too poor.

but i know what it is.
great that it survives.

[SixerJ]

Also check out Collecting Cars as a sales platform. They seem to be gaining a lot of traction in the UK and EMEA