Factory Six Race 914, Up for auction Options

[ClayPerrine]

This factory six race car is up for auction on PCA Market.

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1970-por...4-6-race-car-1/

Looks to be a nicely done car.

No affiliation, just thought I would share.

Clay

[Racer]

What does this mean:

During the build, the original chassis was deemed to have had too extensive corrosion to be a safe platform, and a replacement chassis was sourced from another 1970 914. Some of the original 914-6 body panels were moved over to the new chassis along with genuine steel fender flares and a lightweight fiberglass hood, trunk lid, and removable targa top.

Selling with a 914/6 VIN.. but this seems to make it seem less 914/6 and maybe a vin swap? I'm sure there is a clear explanation.

That said, looks like a fun car!

[mb911]

What does this mean:

During the build, the original chassis was deemed to have had too extensive corrosion to be a safe platform, and a replacement chassis was sourced from another 1970 914. Some of the original 914-6 body panels were moved over to the new chassis along with genuine steel fender flares and a lightweight fiberglass hood, trunk lid, and removable targa top.

Selling with a 914/6 VIN.. but this seems to make it seem less 914/6 and maybe a vin swap? I'm sure there is a clear explanation.

That said, looks like a fun car!

It clearly says VIN swap. This will be interesting for sure.

[Superhawk996]

VIN swap. Borderline illegal but depends on the state specific laws regarding title. Shady at best in my opinion if it were a street car.

Not so much an issues for a race car chassis. Personally, I wouldn't consider it a legit, original 914/6 in any sense. At this point it is a /6 conversion.

Since 914 VIN is only stamped in the passenger front wheelhouse, technically, that is the car according to most state laws.

The nuance is in how much of the original car was saved? The whole front end? The whole front right quarter? The wheel house only? Just the VIN stamping itself?

A VIN swap only is illegal. The rest depends on your morals and state laws.

[Racer]

It clearly says VIN swap. This will be interesting for sure.

My apologies.. I didn't see that in the write up.. So, why list it as a 914/6 if its a VIN swap. My guess is the VIN swap was done to make it Vintage racing eligible? And then sell the books and market it as a "factory 6" if it really isn't?

[mepstein]

I think it's a vin swap but at least the seller is being upfront about the car so the buyer can make an informed decision. Many valuable and historic cars have been "rebodied".
Also, I wonder if there is any legal issue if you don't register the car. Vins are really only for the different tiers of government to keep track of road cars. There is no law -(that I know of) that says an off road vehicle/race car, needs a vin.

[Superhawk996]

. . . but at least the seller is being upfront about the car so the buyer can make an informed decision.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) That is the whole key to this transaction. Transparency is a good thing.

Where it gets shady is when next owner decides to convert back to street use and "forgets" the history, and represents as original 914/6.

[GregAmy]

Generally speaking, sanctioning body regs require equipment to meet the VIN. It is very common for racers to build cars with the desired equipment and then find a suitable VIN for it.

It is not "illegal" if the car will be race-only, however its "compliance" depends on the sanctioning body regs and how it's built.

These days, most historics groups (even SVRA) are looking sideways at builds, and almost nobody seems to do any compliance checks other than safety. I could build a "474" chassis and slot in a 3.2L and they'll let me play with the 911s, thanks-for-your-entry-fee.

Some still cling to the "sanctity" of the regs, but that's unusual these days. But how will you ensure compliance, anyway? Who's going to tear down a hisotirc car's engine to ensure it's a 2L versus a punched-out 2.4?

That said...I suggest that the VIN (and title, if included) is worth half the value of the car itself. Theseus' Ship, and all that...

[Racer]

Looking at the maintenance book..

Car is a 1970. Early ish vin at number 460.. and didn't sell till October 70 as no doubt the 71's were starting to come in and crowd the lot. Delivered 10/10/70. Another sign that these cars just didn't sell too well when new.

I know its just me being a bit anal, but is there explicit comment in the ad about the VIN swap? I am not a member, so maybe its in a comment discussion I can't see.

Ad says "205/50 tires"... pics clearly show 225/50 tires.

All that said.. I still think this looks like a fun car.

[brant]

neat car
and nice build.

but technically a conversion car in that the chassis started life in that form.

[Bullethead]

I posted it to the classifieds last week, and Mark noted the chassis swap. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=353740

Like Racer, I can't find any specific reference to whether the VIN was swapped or not. Or when. If it is and remains a race car, then no worries... but as others say, one or two owners down the road are more likely than not to present this as a genuine 6.

To be fair to the seller though, he's clear about the build, it's offered on bill of sale only, and shows no images of the VIN tag or stampings. If none exist, it's fine and will never return to the street. Looks like a nice build that would be fun to track.

For posterity: 9140430460

[mb911]

Looking at the maintenance book..

Car is a 1970. Early ish vin at number 460.. and didn't sell till October 70 as no doubt the 71's were starting to come in and crowd the lot. Delivered 10/10/70. Another sign that these cars just didn't sell too well when new.

I know its just me being a bit anal, but is there explicit comment in the ad about the VIN swap? I am not a member, so maybe its in a comment discussion I can't see.

Ad says "205/50 tires"... pics clearly show 225/50 tires.

All that said.. I still think this looks like a fun car.

In the screen shot below. Rebodied

[SirAndy]

I know its just me being a bit anal, but is there explicit comment in the ad about the VIN swap?

@Racer

“During the build, the original chassis was deemed to have had too extensive corrosion to be a safe platform, and a replacement chassis was sourced from another 1970 914. Some of the original 914-6 body panels were moved over to the new chassis along with genuine steel fender flares and a lightweight fiberglass hood, trunk lid, and removable targa top”

[ClayPerrine]

I don't know about other states, but here in Texas, the official word is "The part of the chassis that has the VIN number stamped in it is the legal chassis. The rest is attached to it."

So if you keep the whole right front inner fender intact, then that is the car. The rest are just parts attached to the car. Like swapping an engine or transmission.

Legally, in Texas, you could buy a 914-6 that consisted of just the right front inner fender and the windshield VIN plate. Then get a -4 chassis of the same year, and you would, for legal purposes, have a "real 914-6" chassis once you replaced the complete right inner fender. It is not a re-body according to the state of Texas, it is a chassis repair.

There is a big difference in what is legal, and what is the right thing to do when selling a car. I would want to know that had been done, and I believe it would put a lot of shade on that "914-6" chassis. I think you would want to disclose that it is a repaired chassis using a 4 cylinder donor.

I think they did it right with this one. They repaired the chassis and they are disclosing the fact. And for a race car that will never see the street, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

Clay

[73-914]

In New York , 1970 is pre-title, the registration is transferable. 1973 is first year of titles.

[Racer]

I think what is just irking me is that its being listed and sold, with a 914/6 vin and paperwork, when clearly its a rebodied car. That it is a racecar is a saving grace, but over time, stories fade and the next buyer wont have the full story and it becomes drama like that Seinfeld fake 356 Carrera!

That said, even VIN numbers have value.. I've seen and read of many cars "restored" using just a vin plate.. or engine.. or seemingly less!


This is why out of 8 rare Ferrari's built, there are only 26 left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[infraredcalvin]

And for a race car that will never see the street, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

Clay

... for the right price. Certainly not paying -6 prices...

[infraredcalvin]

Registered... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Bullethead]

Registered... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Seller's post answers the most important question, and it's not good IMHO. VIN swaps are illegal nearly everywhere for a reason.

[rick 918-S]

What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is crushed? You need to replace the wheelhouse. Is it ok to the purest here to continue to call the car a 6 or does that erase the car as 6 and it becomes nothing of value? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

The fact is there is only 3100ist factory 6 cars built. Over the years they were wrecked and rusted. If a guy owns a factory 6 and chooses to restore it in a manor using "Like - Kind - and Quality" parts how does it matter how many parts are needed. It is still a restoration or repair of a rightfully owed factory 6. How you choose to value it personally does not change the fact that when a limited production car becomes rare enough and either rusted or damaged enough (or both) it become worth the investment to repair the car. Sometimes it takes a lot of parts, sometimes it doesn't.