Head removal while engine in car ?, Can heads be removed from engine while engine in car? Options

[pistonboy]

Hello

Can heads be removed from a 914 engine without removing the engine from the car?

Thank you.

[technicalninja]

Yes, but it's not worth it IMO.

Popping drivetrain out is gravy and it gives you options for repair.

Is your rear seal 25+ years old? Change it now.

Clutch old? Same advice.

Need belts (especially ac belt) Out is the time.

Many things are far easier with it out.

I believe the engine should come out for maintenance every 20 years...

[Jack Standz]

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say no. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

At least not without a sawzall. Just pull the motor and transmission together, then you can get to the cylinder heads.

Best wishes for a successful fix!

[technicalninja]

I've heard of people doing it with drastically lowering front of engine or taking the head studs out.
I've not personally done this.

To me removing drivetrain is 10 times easier and the only way I'd do it

[porschetub]

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say no. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

At least not without a sawzall. Just pull the motor and transmission together, then you can get to the cylinder heads.

Best wishes for a successful fix!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) not a big deal to remove if fact IMO one of the easier bigger jobs on a 914 ,just make sure you pre-soak various nuts and bolts with penetrant spray ,exhaust head nuts require the most and the application of some heat helps so you don't strip them or snap the studs.
Carefully mark wiring you remove and take photo's before you remove other stuff,get some snaplock bags and mark them in relation to where the fastenings came from.
Good luck and take your time ,cheers.

[Front yard mechanic]

Why not just take the car off the head

[Superhawk996]

There’s just something about 914s that encourages people to try to do things the hard way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[bkrantz]

There’s just something about 914s that encourages people to try to do things the hard way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I think just owning a 914 that gets driven at all (including in the future) is the hard way.

[ClayPerrine]

I have removed a head without taking the engine out of the car. The only reason I did it was that I was working in a car port and I didn't have a place to store the drivetrain out of the car.

But I would have pulled the engine if I could have.

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

NOPE

Hello

Can heads be removed from a 914 engine without removing the engine from the car?

Thank you.

[ClayPerrine]

NOPE

Hello

Can heads be removed from a 914 engine without removing the engine from the car?

Thank you.

Sorry Doc.. on this one you are wrong. I did it years ago on a cold winter day. The engine dropped a valve seat. I had to replace the head to get to work the next day. And I didn't have a garage, just a carport and a shed.

So I stripped the engine tin off that side while it was in the car, and loosened the crossbar enough on that side so the engine would sag and the head would clear the suspension console. I pulled the head and replaced it with another one that I had in the shed.

It was not easy, and I would never recommend it to anyone. It was a dirt ball way of doing it, but it had to be done so I could keep my job. And laying on concrete n a 20 degree farenheit day saps your stamina quick. I had to stop every 30 minutes to warm up.

The right way to do this is to pull the engine out of the car.

[VaccaRabite]

Yes you can do it. Way easier if you have carbs.
It kinda sucks but it is possible.
Many of us here have done it, and it can be faster then pulling the engine. But you will get banged up fingers and knuckles working around the rest of the car.

If you need to do both side just drop the engine. Really, its easier.

If you have stock FI it has to come out.
If carbs, unhook everything, and lay the carb over to the side of the engine that is not getting removed.
Front tray comes off first.
Then the fan comes out. Then the doghouse.
Then you can pull off the tin over the head.

Under the car the exchanger come off.
Valve cover off.
Wire pushrod retainer comes out.
Rockers come off, and pushrods out.
Now the pushrod tubes. You may need to lower the front of the engine a little here.

With the tubes out, using a jack under the engine bar, unbolt the engine bar from the car and let the engine pivot down a few inches.
Now you should be able to pull the head off, do your work and put it back on.

Bear in mind you are flexing the hell out of your transmission mounts if you did not at least loosen the bolts at the trans end.

I've done it. It isn't fun. I probably saved a day in the repair by not dropping the engine.

Again, if you are doing both heads, at that point it really is a lot faster to just drop the engine.

Zach

[Jack Standz]

Don't mean to criticize, but why would you do this repair this way?

Yes, there's so many repairs we've done because we have to get to work the next day, fortunately that's not an issue for most of us with 914s as most are not used as our only or even primary transportation.

If the engine bar is unbolted and the transmission bolts are already loosened (and the fuel injection is removed), how much more does it really take to remove the engine? (Remove the accelerator cable, clutch cable, speedo cable, unplug wiring, and the cv bolts - which should take maybe 15 minutes? Unless you don't have the triple square tool for the cv bolts)

Seems like a tremendously more difficult and time consuming way to swap a cylinder head. Don't do it.

[johnhora]

pistonboy

I have one question....

Why do you want to remove the head?

[VaccaRabite]

Don't mean to criticize, but why would you do this repair this way?

Becasue it CAN save time in the right circumstances.

I know everyone claims t be able to drop an engine in an hour....
And maybe they can if they spent the prior evening doing all the unhooks and removals.

For me at about a 4-6 hour job to pull an engine start to finish. Start being when the car pulls into the shop and the clock starts when I start draining the oil.

If you have helpers - maybe it goes faster.

But by the time the oil is out. Electric is undone. Exhaust is off. CVs are undone and bagged. Fuel is undone and capped. Battery is out. Harness is unplugged. Shift bar is out. Anything from the induction that won't clear the back of the car is removed. Oil cooler unplugged. 02 sensor undone (my car is different, but not THAT different).

AND you have dealt with all the usual home hobbyist BS that come up while working on a project car (wife says empty the trash, dinner is ready, dog needs to go out, your turn to change diapers, pause to drink a beer or smoke something, work calls, pick your distraction).

Not to mention the maybe stripped out CV bolt that you end up having to weld on to the driver in order to get it out, or and whatever other mechanical issues will arise when dealing with a 50 year old car.

I'm pretty good at pulling an engine. But it takes a good bit of time to do it.

And then there is putting everything back together. Did you remember to order the new Schnorr washers in advance? What about new CV bolts? New gaskets? New cone screws for the shift bar? New oil? You should not reuse any of them, and the corner store MAY have the right oil and WILL NOT have any of the other things. So now you are delayed by several days to a week waiting for $25 in parts.

Putting the engine back in usually goes faster, but its still a 3-4 hour job from pushing the engine under the car to turning the key to start the engine, assuming everything goes RIGHT.

There are valid reasons to do it with the engine in the car that most of us probably don't think about or vastly underestimate the time needed to do the work. But if you don't mind working in cramped conditions with a little more risk of badness, you can pull the head and replace it saving both time and money.

About 7-10 hours can be saved by not dropping the engine. That savings gets eaten into by the work you are doing taking longer due to cramped conditions and poor visibility. So a smaller job may make sense, and a larger one certainly DOES NOT make sense.

So, if you need to do both heads - pull the engine. Totally agree. At that point you are not saving time or money.

Zach

[930cabman]

There’s just something about 914s that encourages people to try to do things the hard way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I think just owning a 914 that gets driven at all (including in the future) is the hard way.

Can almost always count on you guys to get a laugh.

[r_towle]

There’s just something about 914s that encourages people to try to do things the hard way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I think just owning a 914 that gets driven at all (including in the future) is the hard way.

This is the way

[Karl R]

I built my first 914 in the summer of '81 and then headed down the 5 from Oregon to LA. It turned out that an air breather hose that the dealer pulled out of a bin of hoses and clamps had the screw from a hose clamp stuck inside it. Coming down the Sisikyou mountains the screw broke loose and went through the intake and embedded itself in the piston. On the side of the south bound 5 I was able to loosen the head, slip it back, knock the screw out the the top of the piston and then button it up again and complete my drive.
So yes, it kinda can be done, but you need a pretty good reason.

[914sgofast2]

I think some people just like to do things the most difficult way possible. It could probably be done, but who wants to spend hours laying on their back and fighting with every nut and bolt you need to remove to loosen and remove the exhaust system, intake manifold, cylinder tins, and then finally the head, just to say you changed a head without removing the engine from the car?

[Superhawk996]

I think some people just like to do things the most difficult way possible.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Ya’ all making it too complicated.

Drain oil?
Remove exhaust?
External oil coolers?

Those are choices to add more work. Not mandatory to remove a basically stock engine. Yea pic below is carbureted but it will all still come out as an assembly with FI.