914 market update, in this months excellence mag Options

[lotus_65]

fyi
a fairly comprehensive report & looks good for us (and those who restore them).

[Andyrew]

Soo... what does it say?

lol

[olav]

Yah, what's the scoop!

[dbledsoe]

I read the update and couldn't help but wonder where they get their selling prices from. I have yet to see even a super clean 914-4 actually selling for the prices they're showing. But if it's for real, it is encouraging news for us 914 owners.

[jd74914]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

But, on the other hand if alot of non-914 owning people (hence non CASOB's) read those market balue surveys and are willing to pay that, prices will go up in general.

[dbledsoe]

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Sep 26 2005, 03:15 PM)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) But, on the other hand if alot of non-914 owning people (hence non CASOB's) read those market balue surveys and are willing to pay that, prices will go up in general.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) It'll make the non-914 owning people get the drool factor (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/drooley.gif) after reading the update and just have to have a 914. "No problem sir. Just throw money at me, lots of money, and this teener can be yours." (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

[lapuwali]

I've wondered for quite some time where Bruce Anderson's (for it's he who generates those articles) gets the pricing data. Some of it, I suspect, is simply data he gets directly from sellers and buyers. Perhaps that's ALL of it. His prices for 912s are also substantially higher than I see in the market.

Part of the problem is simply getting enough data. 914s don't sell in large numbers, and the prices vary quite a bit from deal to deal. A couple of people paying too much for a car can substantially skew the results. Non-project cars sell even more rarely than cars that need a fair amount of work.

There are 10 914s on the SF Bay section of Craigslist right now. I wonder what percentage of all 914s for sale in the US that represents? 1%, 5%, 10%, 20%? There are only two in the LA section. There are three in Sacramento.

Based on these listings, you can buy a drivable 2.0 for no more than $3500 (based on three listings for what read like cars that are in "average" condition, based on 914s I've actually seen) in California. These likely have little rust, and no doubt require SOMETHING in the way of major service to be drivable regularly. Figure transport at $1000 coast to coast, so for $4500-5000, you should be able to get a usable 2.0 anywhere in the continential US. "Nice" cars are more, "projects" are less.

Once you get into "nice" cars, some things besides just the car itself start to matter. History becomes a concern. Niggly little details can make a huge difference in price. Rationality is NOT what sets the price, either. At the highest levels, only one or two cars might change hands every year, so statistical analysis of the prices is almost impossible. The $15K 914s posted here sometimes are way into this range. These cars have to be super-exceptional, and the buyer has to really want that particular car.

All on fours only, btw. I don't look at Six pricing enough to be able to tell, except that $10K is the floor, and most cars will be more than that.

[Andyrew]

so...

What did bruce say this month?

ANyone gona tell us?

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Sep 26 2005, 03:35 PM)

so... What did bruce say this month? ANyone gona tell us?

Buy a copy and find out... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[jd74914]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 26 2005, 06:44 PM)

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Sep 26 2005, 03:35 PM) so... What did bruce say this month? ANyone gona tell us? Buy a copy and find out... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

I want to know too. Please. We are but poor students (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

Its either here or at B&N (I don't pay anyways)

[anthony]

One of the problems with their data is that they use reader reports. It's pretty obvious that if you buy an expensive 914 and/or just want the Excellence numbers to go up in your favor that you just send in a reader sales/buying report with an obscence figure.

Ideally, they should have someone on staff emailing sellers and buyers on ebay transactions and craigslist transactions. That kind of data on sales would be more real world.

[Gint]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 26 2005, 05:44 PM)

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Sep 26 2005, 03:35 PM) so... What did bruce say this month? ANyone gona tell us? Buy a copy and find out... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

I tried that. The three copies there were October and the market update was for 911 Turbos.

So what month Excellence are we talking about?

[smg914]

November 2005. I'm sure it will be in the news stands soon.

[GeorgeRud]

My copy came in the mail today, news stands should be out shortly. The numbers seem about right for excellent cars. The E-Bay super clean sounding 914-6 bidding went to $28,100 if I remember correctly. Sounds cheap next to a $59,000 Cayman

[Tobra]

That little table looks like nonsense to me. According to that, I paid almost $3000 less than I should have. I got a good deal, but not that good

[Bleyseng]

prices seem about right to me......

fuck, these are the prices we were wishing a 914 could command 10 years ago. Now that its in print your guys are bitchin! WTF (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

[goose2]

QUOTE

these are the prices we were wishing a 914 could command 10 years ago. Now that its in print your guys are bitchin! WTF

all depends on whether you're buyin' or sellin' I guess (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[IronHillRestorations]

The data comes from an average of vehicles that have actually sold. So a cherry low mile '73 2.0 that breaks the ceiling would throw the average off.

These cars are now 30 plus years old, and very good (not hit, not rusted out and welded back together) examples are getting harder to find. Even in the PCA Panorama, you don't usually see more than five or six 914's total, when as little as five years ago there'd be a dozen minimum.

Show me a cherry, perfect '73 2.0 for less than the high price in the market report! It's not unusual to see these cars bring more than the prices posted.

Another factor is restoration costs, you can restore the same vintage 911 for the same money, or less (engine not withstanding). 914 parts are in many cases more expensive than 911 parts. While you can't get that money back at the time of sale, it is a consideration that effects the selling price, as well as perfect cars that don't need a restoration. Which again, are getting hard to find.

Let us not forget that the average 914'er is on the "thrifty" side of the Porsche spectrum, and grumbling about high prices is standard M.O. That is until it's time to sell YOUR 914! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[lapuwali]

Pete Stout, editor of Excellence, is on this board. Were I him, I'd be more than a little annoyed at people posting copyrighted content from his mag on this board. It's a good mag serving a tiny audience, and should be supported...

However, while the numbers are shown, I'll agree they're silly high, unless "poor" condition indicates a car that's in much better shape than most 914s I've actually seen. I paid only $3000 for a '71 1.7 in early 2004 I'd place roughly between the "poor" and "good" categories, and felt I paid too MUCH. According the this, I got a screaming good deal. However, I could go out and buy 4-5 914s tomorrow for less than the "poor" prices on any of the types listed, and some of them I'd consider "good"!

Were I selling, I'd LIKE the prices to be this high, but I doubt I'd find any buyers if I attempted to sell a car at those prices.

[Bleyseng]

You live in San Mateo where there are still lots of 914's.
Right now there are 3 really nice 914's for sale in the 8-10K range in Seattle. Now that is good to see!

I just heard of a couple to go look at......in the under 3k range. I am still a cheap ass.