OT: Stick welding, 2nd welding question of the day Options

[lapuwali]

So, I have a cheap stick welder that basically fell into my lap for free, and I've tried to fool around with it, but I can't seem to figure out exactly what you do to make this work.

As soon as I get the electrode anywhere near the workpiece, it gets magnetically attracted to the work and sticks to it. I have to yank it off and try again. Holding the electrode close enough to the work to get an arc, yet far enough that it doesn't grab hold, has proven pretty much impossible after a couple of hours of practice. I have yet to run a single weld bead with the thing, just a series of blackened spots on test bits.

What's the trick?

NOTE: I'm not advocating anyone use a stick welder for anything car related, I'm just wondering how anyone could use one of these things at all.

[r_towle]

I found this to be a very hard skill to acquire....


Basically...get ready and go at the work piece as if you were going to drag it accross backwards...bounce it off the piece about 1/4 to 3/8 inches high so it sparksand then forms an arc....then you point it upright after you get the arc established...

The wierdpart is the stick is always getting shorter and you need to keep it the same distance away from the workpiece in order to keep the arc the same....

I use it for only heavy welding above 1/4 inch steel...

Really hard to use, and really useless for normal around the house/barn needs.

I built a trailer and did about 15 welds with it....the rest were with MIG...

It is an art form...

Rich

[scotty b]

Basically what you heve to do is "bounce" the electrode onto then off of the metal, and maintain the arc. Make sure you have good rods ie. the flux is not craked. You also want to try learning with a 7024 or 7018 rod. 7024 being the absolute easiest to use. Some rods such as 6010, 6011 are VERY tricky to learn and some people who can use other rods can't run these. They require you to manipulate the rod back and forth to create a keyhole and then fill it in. Fast freeze rods as they are known are primarily for poor fittup situations opr extremely important welds where you bevel edges of thicker metal and need an excellent root pass.

[TimT]

what size electrode? what class?

how many amps?

When I learned to stickweld I used two hands. almost a "pool cue bridge" type of setup. Striking the arc, and pulling back to maintain the arc, while moving the puddle and feeding the filler all at he same time takes some getting used to.

A minute movement of your wrist equals a large movement of the welding rod.

[scotty b]

Oh yeah. You also need to use the correct polarity for the rod you are using. Most rods will say on the box what to use, some are actually printed on the stick itsself. If it lists multiple polarities use the first one it will be the optimal setting. Correct amp range will also be on the box. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[sixnotfour]

Is it an AC welder or ACDC, 6013 for AC is the easiest for mild steel.
Tap the rod on the concrete first to crack flux, 70 anything
Try dragging the rod to strike the arc or Striking it like lighting a match.

[Dr. Roger]

James,

You most likely do not have the welder cranked up enough.
just turn it up one setting at a time and you will notice it getting easier...
either that or your technique for "striking an arc" need improvement. try dragging the tip across some test pieces and get a feel for keeping the arc consistent.

a very gentle touch is the key......

i actually use two hands using crap rod like 6010. eventhough i use 7018 on almost everything else.

Practice, practice, practice....

Regards,
Roger

[Trekkor]

That description of "striking a match" just about nails it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)

Make sure the rods are new. Even if they look new, the flux will take on moisture from the air and ruin them.

I first learned on the stick back in '84... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)


KT

[bd1308]

so this is arc welding then right?

my grandpa has a really good arc welder (he welded pipes for years and years)....

can i fix the 914 stuff with it?


b

[McMark]

Generally, arc welding is more applicable to heavier gauge metals. Especially the older ones. Regardless, it would be a good way for you to get some hands on experience with welding in general. The lessons you learn arc welding will help you understand other welding processes. Go get the arc welder and start learning. Look for a cheap Oxy-Aceleline setup as well. I got mine at a garage sale for $100, but you can also buy small portable oxy-acetelyne setups for fairly cheap. With the correct tips, you can weld sheet metal, but again, it would be great experience in welding theory. TIG weldings has a lot in common with Oxy-Acetelyne welding. Arc welding and Oxy-Acetelyne are where I got my start. Get out there and learn. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)

[ChrisFoley]

Use a nice big piece of 3/16 or 1/4 inch plate to practice on.
Strike the arc like you are dragging a big match. You have to maintain about a 1/8" gap between the rod and metal surface to keep the arc going steady. As the flux melts it makes a layer of slag over the molten metal that protects it but also makes it harder to see the puddle. You have to see the slightly different color and fluidity of the puddle underneath so you know that the weld is going where you want it. It is important to not allow the slag to get into or under the puddle as you are welding. Once you establish an arc the rod should be held nearly vertical with a slight angle that pushes the arc into the base metal.
7018 is actually a bit harder to use than 6010, 6011, 6013 but it will result in a better weld due to 2 factors: the low hydrogen coating means the weld will be stronger and the flux contains metal powder which will make the weld a little bigger. 7024 has even more filler metal in the flux and should only be used in the flat position.
Amperage for 3/32 rod (7018) should be somewhere near 65-75 and for 1/8" rod it should be around 110-125 amps.
Too low amperage will be tough to strike and maintain the arc. Too high amperage will spatter more, the rod will burn off too fast, and will make a puddle that is hard to control.
Oh, and don't bother trying to stick weld on your 914. The metal is too thin, even for the smallest rods available. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)

[ruddyboys]

Had the same problem with the rod sticking. Found that if I cut the rod smaller I had more control and was able to get the arc going pretty easy. After doing that for a while I was able to use longer pieces of rod which equals longer welds. Hope that helps, Oh I did a lot of welds with the stick welder, not the most pretty welds but again the 914 won't win any beauty contests either. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

[Teknon]

Get a stitch and spot welder atachment for the welder. You can see them at Eastwood

I have both the stitch and spot welders for my arc welder. I am also almost done with them and could sell them in a couple of weeks. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)

[Jake Raby]

When I was learning to stick weld the easiest rod for me to strike an arc with and get a decent bead with was a 7014- 1/8". The 7014 has less tendency to "stick" to the work and lays down a nice uniform bead. The 7018 is the hardest rod to weld with IMHO and I can hardly weld with one today even after doing it for damn near 20 years off and on.

When arc welding remember the 5 fundamentals of welding

Correct:
Arc length
Amperage
Angle
Speed

Hell I forgot the last one! (damn thats been a long time ago)

I'm with Chris on practicing beads on a thick piece of plate steel.. Don't even attempt to weld two pieces of metal together until you can lay down a nice consistent bead on flat steel and make it slick enough for the slag to pop off by it's self. Learning to Arc weld was the toughest thing I experienced in the welding world, even harder than the Tig- But it was also the first thing I ever tried to weld with.. Most people start out with a Mig and that just spoils you!!!

[scotty b]

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Nov 7 2005, 06:06 PM)

James, You most likely do not have the welder cranked up enough. just turn it up one setting at a time and you will notice it getting easier... either that or your technique for "striking an arc" need improvement. try dragging the tip across some test pieces and get a feel for keeping the arc consistent. a very gentle touch is the key...... i actually use two hands using crap rod like 6010. eventhough i use 7018 on almost everything else. Practice, practice, practice.... Regards, Roger

6010 is not a crap rod. It is rod rod that is intended to be used for fast fill/freeze operations not running stringer beads on plate. I used a 6010 on my AWS certifications as the root pass on an open joint,followd by a 7018 for the fill passes and 7024 for the cover pass, which is it's proper use. Each of the specimens are cut apart, x-rayed and put through a guided bend test where the piece is bent in a U both on the root and on the face. 6010 is just fine when used correctly!!Different rods are for different applications, and they use different current; if the correct rod type, size and current are not matching you get a crap job! I personally only stick weld on 1/4" and up. No need to on thinner metals.