Metal Ready, necessary? Options

[rjames]

They guy at the local auto body shop said that metal ready wasn't necessary (probably because he was out of the stuff) before using POR15 as long as I did a good job of grinding all of the rust out.

This doesn't sound correct as I'll never be able to grind and clean up ALL of the rust particles...

However, I've seen the instructions for the Metal Ready stuff, and it sounds like a big mess. Is there another product that's less messier that will do the same thing (assuming I need it)? Rubbing alcohol? (at least that stuff will evaporate on it's own).

Also, I've got areas where I won't be able to wash the metal ready stuff out of if I apply it (center tunnel comes to mind). I can't just spray Metal Ready in there because it's an acid and eventually will destroy the metal- I have to be able to wash the stuff out. So do I just try and coat with POR15 using some sort of 'rag-on-a-pole' method??

New pics of the longs, rust etc:


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...&hl=metal+ready


Since I have a couple of small areas to weld later, can I grind of the POR15 easily (or easily enough) when the time comes to weld those areas? (ie: holes due to rust)

[bondo]

Jasco metal etch is pretty similar and much cheaper. Still messy.

[airsix]

Messy but effective. Don't take shortcuts IMHO.

[Rand]

According to the company, POR15 is "designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal."
Metal ready is for etching slick metal "including aluminum and shiny polished metal surfaces" for better adhesion.

POR15
Metal Ready

I heard a guy recommend letting the surface rust on new sheet metal before painting with POR15 so it would adhere better. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) I would use Metal Ready instead, but you are supposed to be able to just wire brush the loose rust off and paint with POR15 - nothing else required.

Personally, I like Ospho and Hammerite.

[tat2dphreak]

if you are using real POR-15, use Metal ready too... otherwise, Ospho is cheaper, and easier and acts as a primer

[rjames]

I'm leaning towards some kind of rust inhibitor product.
I just don't want to mess this up now that I've come this far.

I guess the plan after getting down to the bare metal
is to
1) degrease
2) ospho/metal ready/jasco (some type of rust inhibitor
3) Por15

Still not sure about the areas like the center channel I can't get into enough to completely clean out any rust inhibitor I spray in there though.

[Bartlett 914]

I can't say for sure if you need metal ready or not. I haven't used this or any other product as yet. I have done a little reading and asking about this and other products.

I have heard that Por 15 sometimes does not stick properly to bare metal. It sticks very well to rust. This product and others that are similar work by absorbing moisture. The material fills all the small cracks and pores in the rust. The moisture is absorbed in the Por 15 in the curing process. This prevents the rust from spreading. I read in another pose a recomendation of using Ospho or something else before Por 15. I think this is a mistake. There are other products like Ospho that changes the rust to something else. These materials turn black on contact with the metal. I would be cocerned this may cause some adverse reaction. I also would not use alchol or any solvent in the cleaning. At least you should finish with a water base cleaner. I believe this is spelled out in the manufactures instructions.

I purchased another product called Rust Bullet. Haven't used it yet. I have heard it is a good product. Do a google and decide for yourself.

Lots of luck on your car. It look a lot better than my project!

Mark

[TimT]

Use white vinegar (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

[lapuwali]

There are some who would say the opposite: use Metal Ready (or equivalent) and DON'T use POR-15.

If you use anything with phosphoric acid (Metal Ready, Ospho, Navel Jelly, etc) in it, you're converting the rust from iron oxide to iron phosphate, which won't rust any furthur, and the phosphate ions occupy all of the space the oxygen ions are trying to attach themselves to. POR-15, et al, will "seal" the metal so more oxygen atoms can't get to the iron atoms, so rust is stopped.

My take is to use both. Metal Ready over rusty metal will halt the rust that's forming now, and it gives you a better surface for the POR to stick to. It also etches the metal that's not rusty, which also increases the chances of the POR sticking to that. The Metal Ready doesn't do much to protect steel that's not already rusted, which the POR will do.

Ospho only converts, it doesn't etch. I think Jasco will do both.

[Eric_Shea]

Never used it (Metal Ready). I've only applied POR-15 to bead blasted clean metal.

I use Zero-Rust now for most applications now.

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jan 25 2006, 03:34 PM)

If you use anything with phosphoric acid (Metal Ready, Ospho, Navel Jelly, etc) in it, you're converting the rust from iron oxide to iron phosphate, which won't rust any furthur, and the phosphate ions occupy all of the space the oxygen ions are trying to attach themselves to. POR-15, et al, will "seal" the metal so more oxygen atoms can't get to the iron atoms, so rust is stopped.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) POR-15 alone does not do anything to or with the rust. it just seals the surface so no more moisture or oxygen can get to it.
if the POR-15 coat is compromised, you got a nice moisture trap between the POR-15 and the *bare* metal you covered with it ...

metal ready on the other hand chemically reacts with the rust (even bare metal to a certain degree) and stops rust dead on.
i always metal-ready any surface, like for example after welding. let it dry. if you used too much, wipe it off with a wet cloth.

when dry, paint it with your favorite primer/paint or put a top-coat of POR-15 over it.

i have seen POR-15 applied directly to rusted surfaces and it'll hold up for a while, but if the rust underneath is too much, it'll eventually bubble and break through ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy

[McMark]

Metal Ready leaves a zinc layer as well.

[Rrrockhound]

QUOTE

i have seen POR-15 applied directly to rusted surfaces and it'll hold up for a while, but if the rust underneath is too much, it'll eventually bubble and break through ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) The PO had POR-15'd the battery tray on my teener, which is now peeling like crazy, as if he didn't prep it properly first. Still pretty solid tho, but that's one thing to do on my warm weather list.

[Rand]

QUOTE (Rrrockhound @ Jan 25 2006, 04:50 PM)

QUOTE i have seen POR-15 applied directly to rusted surfaces and it'll hold up for a while, but if the rust underneath is too much, it'll eventually bubble and break through ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) The PO had POR-15'd the battery tray on my teener, which is now peeling like crazy, as if he didn't prep it properly first. Still pretty solid tho, but that's one thing to do on my warm weather list.

You can only put POR15 (or any other rust-"encapsulating" paint) over surface rust on good base metal. If there are scales, or the rust can come through the back side, that's another matter - which means the rot needs to be cut out and replaced with good metal.

[rjames]

Hmm ok, so I will go find some metal ready. What about the areas that I can't rinse the metal ready off very well? Like the center chanel? Or the enclosed area to the left of the pedal cluster (accessible by only a 50cent piece size hole)? Or in the jack area on the rocker panel?

Sorry for all the questions, and the bad pics (see below)

[rjames]

ads

[Rand]

QUOTE (rjames @ Jan 25 2006, 04:58 PM)

Hmm ok, so I will go find some metal ready.  What about the areas that I can't rinse the metal ready off very well?  Like the center chanel? Or the enclosed area to the left of the pedal cluster (accessible by only a 50cent piece size hole)?  Or in the jack area on the rocker panel? Sorry for all the questions, and the bad pics (see below)

Center tunnel: It's surface rust... do your best to brush and vacuum it out. Paint it with Hammerite or POR15. Period. No Metal Ready needed.

Jack plate: Cut it off. Cut rotted metal out around that area back far enough to get rid of rotted metal and into good metal. Weld in new sheet metal. Metal Ready the new metal if you like (or sand it to get a non-slick surface). Paint the area well. Perhaps with POR15 or Hammerite.

My $.02, and I know it will work for at least 30 years. Or so, depending on environment. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[rjames]

Your 2 cents is welcomed! Seriously!

QUOTE

Jack plate: Cut it off. Cut rotted metal out around that area back far enough to get rid of rotted metal and into good metal. Weld in new sheet metal.

Do I really need the jack plate? I was thinking about cutting it out and leaving it off.

[sgomes]

Let me jump in here too. I'm about to dig into this:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/blog-1134747528.jpg)

My plan was to cut away a hole big enough to get inside the long and do what I can Metal Ready and POR-15wise...

If I have to wash the Metal Ready after application...then I may not want to do that!

What have others done inside the long or as the OP asked, inside the tunnel?

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (rjames @ Jan 25 2006, 04:58 PM)

What about the areas that I can't rinse the metal ready off very well?  Like the center chanel?

i sprayed the hell out of my center tunnel and longs. took 2 days for the metal ready to dry. no need to wash anything off, unless you plan on painting it inside and leave it exposed for everyone to admire the inside of your center tunnel ...

excess MR won't hurt anything, it's just hard to primer over. you only have to wash it off if you want to primer and paint that area. that's why you should wash it down if you applied it to thick ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy