Advice: Rubber., Where should the money go? Options

[Dr. Roger]

Hey guys,

Let's say, hypothetically, that you were a CSOB, like me, who wanted to put their hard earned money into the right place on you 914.

I'm thinking tires and wheels at this point.

This is where i'm at right now...
I've got the V8 with I don't know how much torque (lots) with the Otto built trans for the V8. 4 speed.
I've now got the 911 front end w/turbo tie-rods (installed), 15mm (stock?)sway (not installed yet), drilled disks ready to be swapped in.
Rear now has the Koni yellows w/140# coils and Coleman perchs.
Rear brakes are now, IMHO, adequate as they are on 911 vented rotors.

So I think that should bring the braking and handling up to par. Yes?

So now i'm thinking about the right tires and wheels...
And it's gotta' look and act abslutely bitchin'. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

I noticed that for ultra high performance tires the 17" and up sizes are the most prevailant. So I should probably get something in equal to or greater than 17". Right?

Then there's the age old question of, "How wide?".

I'm willing to go as wide as is optimal for superior handling. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

After researching how wide many others have gone on their high torque/HP 914's there is little limitation.

With all of that said... I'm leaning towards the turbo twisties 8" front/10" rear with Kumho Extas', Falken Ezeni's or Yokohama's. Yes, i will be flaring. Just don't know how much yet.... =-))

Unless anyone knows of a lighter wheel that still looks great and better rubber than what I listed? Unsprung weight is important to me.
I still like the cookie cutters with custom widened lips... Anyone in the bay area got a connection??? =-))))

Heck i'll even throw in some of my special cajun burgers for the right deal! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

Opinions and suggestions appreciated. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smiley_notworthy.gif)
Roger

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Feb 8 2006, 04:06 PM)

Then there's the age old question of, "How wide?". I'm willing to go as wide as is optimal for superior handling.

absolute superior handling = 1 Parsec

above that, you won't notice much improvement ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy

[Twystd1]

If it were me..

I would focus on the following.

SUSPENSION:

1) Stiffen the chassis as much as possible within the confines of $s and cosmetics (cage etc.)

2) Tarret bars front and rear.

3) Heavier rear springs (180s maybe)

4) Mueller bearings.

5) Falcon Azenis 615s for the street. Big as will fit!!
This assumes I wont be driving the Teener for anything other than having fun. And not worry about tire longevity.

6) Lastly, get as much seat time as possible. And have a pro teach me driving as often as possible.

Welcome to my car... (Eventually)

Twystd1

[Dr. Roger]

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 8 2006, 05:12 PM)

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Feb 8 2006, 04:06 PM) Then there's the age old question of, "How wide?". I'm willing to go as wide as is optimal for superior handling. absolute superior handling = 1 Parsec above that, you won't notice much improvement ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy

geez andy, i had to look that one up. 3.26 light years. last time i heard that word it was by luke skywalker.

or 19.2 trillion miles. per hour? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) so your suggesting forget the rubber and pick up one of those flux capacitors?

[jhadler]

If price is no issue, then I'd say get a set of either CCW's or Fikse wheels. Nice stuff. Strong, and light. But not cheap.

As for tires, I'd be sceptical of the falken as it's prone to not tollerate heat well. And a V8 will push the tires hard. I'd look more at the BFG's as they can handle heating better and will still be way fun to drive. If you want to step it up, the BFG KD's are really great tires. Not as cheap as the Falken, but will stand up to abuse better.

Oh yeah, I think you need a little more spring back there. Especially with the extra weight of the big motor....

But chassis was something someone else mentioned, and I agree. Lots of torque can twist the chassis of the teener pretty well. You'd be surprised how much improvement you feel when you get a 4-pt or 6-pt cage in there....


-Josh2

[J P Stein]

Sure, everybody says unsprung weight is important ....then goes & hangs big beanies out there. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Fat street tiars are heavy. 17 inch wheels are heavy. The lightest 17 inch wheels are race wheels..... bring money.

I have no idea which is the lightest street tiar per a given size. They are not made for lightness, but made to be robust. Prolly within a few pounds of each other (WAG)

You can get 15 inch wheels & tires that are up to snuff for handiling. Those will get you going fast enuff on a back country road to make you socially unacceptable. Your V8 will blow them off for acceleration....as it will for most any tire/wheel size. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Feb 8 2006, 04:38 PM)

so your suggesting forget the rubber and pick up one of those flux capacitors?

no, i was suggesting that, if you ignore everything else for a second, the answer to your question "I'm willing to go as wide as is optimal for superior handling" is:

as wide as you can possibly get away with!

any mm added to the trackwidth will improve your handling.

again, ignoring things like wheel/tire weight, additional stress on the suspension/chassis. popeye arms to steer the thing, etc etc etc ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy

[bd1308]

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 8 2006, 06:48 PM)

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Feb 8 2006, 04:38 PM) so your suggesting forget the rubber and pick up one of those flux capacitors? no, i was suggesting that, if you ignore everything else for a second, the answer to your question "I'm willing to go as wide as is optimal for superior handling" is: as wide as you can possibly get away with! any mm added to the trackwidth will improve your handling. again, ignoring things like wheel/tire weight, additional stress on the suspension/chassis. popeye arms to steer the thing, etc etc etc ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy

how'd you know about PopEye? I used to watch that as a kid. Did they have that in Germany?

b

[Allan]

I think the 140 lb. springs might be a tad too soft.

[Dr. Roger]

this is all good.

i hadn't thought about steering pressure exertion....

i know on leo imperials sticky yokohama's it was weird to make a slow tight turn. the tires were so stickly it would "hop" every foot of so. =-)

so what i'm hearing is if:

I care little about steering input and

i have a limited budget for light weight wheels / tires and

and i want performance, damn it! then

i should get the widest, lightest tire/wheel setup i can afford?

Then start shopping for weld-in 4 or 6 point cages. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/w00t.gif)

[Dr. Roger]

QUOTE (Headrage @ Feb 8 2006, 06:01 PM)

I think the 140 lb. springs might be a tad too soft.

yep, ive dialed in a bit of ride height to even things up for now. probably go up on spring rate later... i just wnat to take it up slowly so i know how each level of spring rate feels. stock sucked. LOL

[Joe Ricard]

I am partial to the Diamond steelies. 16 pounds for a 15 X 8 wheel rubber up to 245/50 in Azenis 615 on the street is good for sticking to the road. You will only over heat them if you are driving like a freaking maniac or Autocrossing with serious slip angles.
I think Diamond makes 16's also which gives much better tire selection.

[Dr. Roger]

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Feb 8 2006, 06:57 PM)

I am partial to the Diamond steelies. 16 pounds for a 15 X 8 wheel rubber up to 245/50 in Azenis 615 on the street is good for sticking to the road. You will only over heat them if you are driving like a freaking maniac or Autocrossing with serious slip angles. I think Diamond makes 16's also which gives much better tire selection.

i emailed them to ask if they offer a 17" rim. seems that the weight isn't much different than a turbo twistie...

23lbs for their 16X10

turbo twistie's are...???

[jhadler]

Turbo twisties are Porsche wheels...

Diamond makes an EXCELLENT product. I have a set of their wheels under my 914. 15x8 comes in between 16 and 17 lbs.

If you want 17's, either be preapared to shell out big bucks, or take whatever you can find in a custom steel or heavy aluminum wheel. Centerline can make you pretty darn near any wheel you want. It just won't be light. But it will be a far sight cheaper than something from Fikse or CCW. Circle racing wheels is another option, but I would recommend against them for street use. They are -racing- wheels and the alloy they use for the shells can be a little soft. They're great for racing, but be carefull who you give the wheels to for tire mounting, they're easy to destroy for a tire-jockey who's not carefull. I have a set of circle's in my imminent future by the way...

yes, 17" street rubber will NOT be light. If weight is your biggest concerm, and handling secondary. Get a set of lighter, but smaller diameter wheels. You can get the same width tires with taller sidewalls in smaller diameters. But why? You ask. Smaller diameter wheels weigh less. And taller sidewalls will protect your wheels when you hit that invisible pothole. Just as someone who drives a spiffed up sport car with the expensive SSR wheels and 40 series tires how expensive that last pothole was... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

Yeah, slightly taller sidewalls for a street car... I think sticky rubber bands wrapped around an expensive wheel are great for competition, but a potential bank breaker for a street-only car...No, you don't need 70 series tires, or mudders, but even going up to a 45 or 50 series tire can, and does make a difference. Both good and bad. The shorter tires will dramatically improve the responsiveness. But will also make the wheel much more prone to pothole damage... Oh yeah, the shorter seiries tires tend to cost more too...

-Josh2

[Dr. Roger]

Josh,

Thanks for sharing your experience with both low and higher profile tires.

And I completely agree that the 15" is the way to go for street for not only weight but durability.

I really want to hang on to the 15" wheels that I have. I have had a challenge with finding ultra high performance summer tires in a 10" width though. 8"ers are no problem.

Do you have any suggestions for locating the 10" high performance tire?
This is what's on the rears now.
Roger

[Mueller]

another thing to factor in (cost and weight) is that if you use the Porsche Turbo twist rims, spacers from 2" to 3" will be needed...not cheap nor light

[brer]

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 8 2006, 05:48 PM)

popeye arms to steer the thing,

you can increase your scrub radius for that.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

[Rand]

Anything bigger than 16" is just too much on a street 914.... Looks out of place with the car and requires lower profile tires than I would want to run on public roads.

But that's just my worthless opinion. I can't wait to see what you do Roger. Based on what I've seen of your project, I know it will be good! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[Andyrew]

No one has addressed brakes..

Just get some sticky pads (pagrid or potterfield are good.) and seat them right (get em super hot, 0-100-0-100-0-100-0-100 is a good idea, and dont touch em, then let em cool overnight... Brad told me this)

Tires will be limited to trani strength and chassis strength.

yar gona need both...

Your setup is "simular" to mine currently. If you put that bar in up front, you'll push like crazy.

You need 180's or more to get the rear to rotate, and if the front is stiff, even more.. Notice the problems I have? I bought 275 springs to fix this.. Adjustable front bar to fix anything else.. and some big arse meets to aleviate any other problems and bring me into "supercar" territory stance..

Feel free to copy what im doing..

Andrew

[Mar7ck]

Hey Roger,

I am going to 17's in the front. things to think about, RSR struts in some cases do not get along with anything less than 17 (for the ones I have), also some larger brake 993 or larger like biger wheels.
In the back I am going to try 18 inch. with 18's I can get the wheel dia I want. I find more choices. I had difficulty finding tires for 15x11 wheels, and when I locate a pair the cost was astronomical.
This is my plan 17x9 and 18x11 Kinesis 3600.00.
I am open for montary donations!!!

Mar7ck