SDS, Simple Digital... Options

[TimT]

We (Bill) just tuned a car the dyno managed by SDS..

Well a result is that we are now SDS distributors..
More info to follow

[Jake Raby]

SDS rocks!
been using them exclusively for 18 months now.

[Brett W]

Why?

[Jake Raby]

NO BS software and equal results to those systems that cost twice as much and don't make more than 2% more power in back to back testing.

Mainly its simplicity and ease of tuning, most of my customers are now wrenches- they have to be able to tune something easily or they give up on it.

It doesn't get more simple than SDS.

[bd1308]

Hence the name right?

Finally a product representative by its name

[BMXerror]

I was thinking of using one of these systems when I build my big motor for the 914 because it doesn't cost much more than a set of the carbs that I would need, and it's WAY simpler and more accurate. Still, I don't know much about it. What's deal; do you have to fabricate a manifold and use their injectors, or do you use the stock ones? How is the crankshaft postition sensor done on that system? just wondering. I'm losin hair over the dejet's finicky habits.
Mark D.

[Jake Raby]

SDS only provides the electronics...

You have to come up with everything else on your own..

OR I have a complete kit that uses the SDS electronics but has either a common plenum or individual runner throttle bodies. It is sold as a 100% complete kit, all you need are fuel hoses.

But all the development time wasn't cheap so the cost of the kits are 2800-3600 bucks.

[Bleyseng]

but its not laptop programable??? huh, neither is Djet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Brett W]

For Jake I can see the reasons to use such a system. He can tune it for his most popular setups and sell a reasonably complete kit to customers that may or may not be interested in anything other than a bolt on kit.

I guess that applies to everyone that wants a simple setup that is set and forget. If you are constantly trying different setups and experimenting I wouldn't use the system.

I still don't see the fascination with the little tiny palm controller? HOw can that be easy to tune? I have used Motec, EFI technologies, Hondata, Autronic, AEM, Hondata, Dynojet, and Megasquirt. I just can't see me liking some little LCD controller to try and tune a vehicle from scratch.

[Jake Raby]

Its very easy- the reason you can't see that is because you have not used it.

A good example was being able to tune my 912E on a 105 mile trip, from scratch, in the dark through some patches of rain! Because it does not have a PC to hold onto one doesn't need computer skills to use it. You also don't have to gi by a laptop just for the purpose.

I have experience with autronic, haltech, emerald, weber redline and some limited megasquirt experience and have tested all of those against SDS on the same engine, except megasquirt..

The reason the controller is easy to use is it functions with and is complimented by the enrichment knob. When cruising at a given, problematic MP or RPM FUEl value the knob can be richened or leaned to the point where the engine drives best. Then the tuner can click one button to see how much of a percentage of change was needed to take that value to an optimum point. Then with the click of the button again the fuel value can be changed by that percentage and the ECU then sets that as the default.

So if at 11.2MP you are stumbling and hesitant reach over and tweak the knob till the engine smoothes out or you reach the desired AFR you want. Then look at the percentage of knob and add or subtract that amount from the fuel value at 11.2MP- its that simple.

Its so easy that we I fully tune engines on the dyno by my self, even new combos that we have no previous data on. I don't build the same engine over and over- in fact I don't build exactly the same engine twice! I ave never had an issue with tuning a new combo with SDS.

I haven't had the programmer or knob out of the glovebox in my 912E since the week after I installed the system. when Len and I travelled to the runoffs last year we went up through west Virginia and at 5K+ feet the system ran flawlessly.

I'm using SDS with my wife's 79 vert with the Super 2 liter+ Turbo engine. This will be her 100% daily driver 40 miles each way per day. If a girl thats an accountant can tune the system, that proves the point pretty well..
as for performance, Autronic made 3% more peak power than SDS When optimized but the ECU costs double that of SDS and they have shitty support.
Don't condemn something that you haven't tried-

[fiid]

It sounds like somone should build a similar user interface for MegaSquirt!!

[Mueller]

It sounds like somone should build a similar user interface for MegaSquirt!!

I think there is something already very similar for the MegaSquirt, I have an unbuilt kit, I'll have to find it and post info about it...


My LINK FI has an optional pentdant like the SDS, I have not used one but have thought about buying it since the laptop can be a PITA to use at times

[Brett W]

Not condeming it just wondering if it is as good as people make it out to be. Laptops are cheap enough now. Guess I will need to tune a car with it and see how it is.

[ottox914]

If anyone has not been here, check out my recent SDS install here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...c=53733&hl=

The combo of the SDS system and the WMS wideband is killer- the tuning is SO easy.

The car started after 4 cranks and settled into a 1000 rpm idle.
The first time I drove it, I kept one eye on the wideband display, one on the road.
After 2 stops to lean things out, the car is at around 11.5-12.0:1 AFR, still plenty rich, but not bad for 15min of work.

Next step: with the WMS wideband, the SDS controller will log AFR at each RPM programing point. So, how is this for easy: warm the car up, get into 3rd gear, get rolling at around 2k rpm on a long flat road, go to 75% throttle or so up to redline. Pull over, and scroll thru the RPM programing points. The display will show the RPM programming point, such as 2250, as well as the current fuel value, (any # from 1 to 256) and the AFR at that rpm point, such as 11:1. So lets say you want to be at 12.5:1 at that rpm point. Figure out the % difference from what you got, in this case, 11:1, and what you want, 12.5:1, and change the fuel value by that %, and you're done for that RPM point. Do that for each RPM point, and in 1 "pull" and maybe 5 min on the side of the road, you are done. One person can do it all.

Next step after this would be to load the car on a dyno, and use the knob to richen or lean the mixture out across all RPM points, and do back to back dyno pulls to see where your base line set up, and the +10% fuel set up made more TQ. In this example, we know the difference is 10% due to using the knob at a 10% setting, so adjust the fuel at that RPM point by 10%, save the new values, and try again to add or subtract 10% with the knob, make a run, make an adjustment, till you have maximised your TQ across the RPM range. For example, you may find that 12.5:1 is the right AFR at one RPM point, but not at another. My plan is to use the fuel values to tune to a safe AFR for general use, then use the fuel values to tune on the dyno, to maximum TQ at each RPM point, and the AFR will be what it will be. I'll set the SDS to run open loop for steady state highway driving and let the SDS ecu and WMS wideband work togather to get some MPG back.

When I get my dyno tune done I'll be sure to post results...

[JPB]

[quote name='ottox914' date='Aug 24 2006, 09:30 PM' post='759576']
If anyone has not been here, check out my recent SDS install here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...c=53733&hl=

The combo of the SDS system and the WMS wideband is killer- the tuning is SO easy.

The car started after 4 cranks and settled into a 1000 rpm idle.
The first time I drove it, I kept one eye on the wideband display, one on the road.

Cool thread and nice job! If Jake says yes then its a GO!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Jake Raby]

The other aspect of this system that is REALLY nice is the immediate support from Barry, Ross and the guys at SDS. When I made a goof on the Mighty Spyder and fried a coil pack they overnighted one to me for free! When I was trying to work through an initial fuel map for that engine with all its craziness they worked a solid day with me and got something together that I tuned fully in less than 3 hours to 257HP from 2397cc on pump gas.

Of all the EFI companies I have worked with SDS is the best of all them 5:1! They are also very used to working with beginners and they won't make you fell dumb if you have a question- my customers really like that.

The programmer is the thing I REALLY like about SDS.. sure you can't come across as some genius to your friends and club members when they see you fiddling with an LCD vs a laptop, but all I care about are results...

The fact is that the fancy systems have so much shit on them that they don't need that you can never get them dialed in perfectly

[ottox914]

The fact is that the fancy systems have so much shit on them that they don't need that you can never get them dialed in perfectly

For me that was all part of the "simple" part. I shopped hard for a system, and while other systems may claim to have more flexability in set up, and a broader base of applications, why pay, and confuse your self more, with more options you don't need.

And Yes, the support, what little of it I have needed for a mainly stock application, has been outstanding, from Ross and Barry at SDS, and our own Mark Henry, who sold me my system.

[Mark Henry]

I was probably the first guy (about 4 years ago) on this forum to try the new generation SDS systems and yes I also sell them. I like to think that I was influential in Jake taking a look at the system and like me he was impressed with the simplicity of the SDS. But let's face it, if it was a dog he wouldn't have given a crap of what I said.

Yes it doesn't have the bells and whistles of some systems and if you're trying to make a late model car pass emissions (although I have made it pass Ontario, Canada emissions on a Honda) it may not be the system for you.

There are many tuners that do not like the system and I've come to the conclusion that there is only one reason....money. They do not like the fact that the end user can do them out of a job and tune it themselves.
And of course there are those that knock it without even ever seen, let alone tried one.

Also there are many who succumb to the hype (of course every manufacture and/or tuner is going to say their system is the best) and believe that they must have sequential injection. Reality is almost every system I've seen that says they are sequential is not truly running 100% sequential. They build in a "fudge factor" to the software and lull the tuner into believing they have more control then they really do have.
Some guy's also complain that there is no "limp home" mode...well if the system is reliable you don't need one.
Truth is for what we want out of a system and SDS does the job quite well.

David's (ottox914) tuning experience is typical of the feed-back I have received, most guy's are amazed at how simple it is to tune. Basically if you can zip up your pants without getting you're beans and frank caught you can install/tune an SDS.

In the end it's all about making an engine run well, not bragging rights, isn't it?