6 vs 4 Options

[914fan]

How do a 200hp 6 and a 200hp 4 drive compared to eachother. I know there are several ways to get 200hp out or either. I am interested in a daily driver 200hp 6 or 4. Does anybody have any dyno charts of these? Is the 6 more peaky? is the 4 more torquE? Type IV and Porsche 6 please.


I am not trying to start a flame war. I am just looking for information cause I found an empty spot in my brain, and I need to fill it before something else goes in there.

[porschecb]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[ChrisFoley]

Displacement makes a big difference. A 2 liter producing 200hp will be peaky whether 4 or 6.

[SirAndy]

I am not trying to start a flame war

simple. if you have a /4 and you put a /6 in it, you WILL die! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

IMHO, the main difference is in the location of the powerband, a /4 with similar HP output will be more responsive on a tight AX course, a /6 with similar HP output will outrun a /4 on the big track.

for the street, it ain't matter much. i drove my 1.8/1.7 /4 for years and didn't feel like i was missing out on anything.

a big /6 is fun to drive. so is a big /4. meaning, this debate is kind of useless.

dyno charts alone don't make for a enjoyable drive around the twisty backroads, never paid much attention to them ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Andy

[TROJANMAN]

i think it all comes down to cost. a six conversion is cheaper than most big 4's

depending on where you order parts, and who does the build

or you could always go SUBY (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Bleyseng]

i think it all comes down to cost. a six conversion is cheaper than most big 4's

depending on where you order parts, and who does the build

Ah, but a big 4 is going to be a nearly new motor while a six usually is not new.

I think the cost is all relative depending on what you are doing or who is doing it.

4 have a more flat torque starting more down in the rpms range while 6's usually have a higher rpm range with their hp/torque high too.

Jake is working on changing all this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mountain914]

Not sure on "how they drive" - but would y'all consider a 200hp 4 to be "high strung" as a daily driver ? I.E. I would think (IMHO) I would trust more road trips with a 200hp 6 over a 200hp 4. However, Bleysing makes a good point on "newness" but I would say you would build either one up "new" I would choose the 6 (all on the assumption high horse 4 needs higher compression, better gas, runs hotter, etc.. etc..)

[Brando]

This is the kind of question that begs for a vague answer.

Both 4's and 6's can be built reliably. Simply put, it all depends on what quality of parts you use, quality of assembly, etc. Both can be built to produce a good, linear torque and hp curve. Both can be built to idle high and bring the power on high, or keep it down low.

I guess what I'm saying is, tell us what your pocketbook says, and we'll tell you which is more affordable.

An original 6cyl car with a bigger motor maintains it's value much better than a converted 4cyl car, an unconverted 4cyl car can have a big-displacement 4cyl engine and still maintain it's value for being unmolested. It all depends on what your endgame goal is and your budget.

[BMXerror]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

[Brother]

Wouldn't the four be lighter with a potentially (slightly) lower CG due to the 911's fan and induction?

[TravisNeff]

The car will be easily 100lbs lighter (4vs6), obviously that means apples to apples in other weight reduction (if any).

It's all down to what you prefer.

[Bleyseng]

Not sure on "how they drive" - but would y'all consider a 200hp 4 to be "high strung" as a daily driver ? I.E. I would think (IMHO) I would trust more road trips with a 200hp 6 over a 200hp 4. However, Bleysing makes a good point on "newness" but I would say you would build either one up "new" I would choose the 6 (all on the assumption high horse 4 needs higher compression, better gas, runs hotter, etc.. etc..)

What is changing in the 4 engine world is the availablity of high quality parts.
These are or will be here shortly:
Nickies- Nikasil cylinders even better quality than the 911 ones
Rods- high quality rods better in quality than stock
Pistons- of course better ones
Cams- lots of good cams now that don't go flat
Lifters- anything from good stock replacements, ceramic, or soon roller lifters.
Heads- New castings that are CNC'd to perfection with seats that don't drop out

Sure this will cost money but a hipo 200hp 4 that will last 100k.
yes, it will need a oil cooler but so does a six over a 2.4L 130hp.

[john rogers]

Since I have raced both here is my take on it. The 2.8L four was easier to drive as the torque came on earlier than the 2.2L six. Both had 185 HP at the rear wheels where the four made it at 4800 RPM with long stroke, the six made it at 6000 RPM. The six lasted 22 race weekends before breaking a rod this past spring while the four would get two races before needing work. In the cost race, the six is way ahead over time. Now remeember, this is racing with 4 to 6 30 minute full bore sessions a weekend which is much different than street driving and occasional auto-x use so it is much harder on the engine internals. The engines both had pretty good hardware, with the four having Pauter forged rods, forged crank, custom heads with titanium valves and dual springs, etc. The six was made with mostly Porsche racing components except for the 906 grind cams.

[Brad Roberts]

I think that 6 is better than 4. Most girlfriends would agree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I feel bad for those of you with small bore 4's...LOL



B

[Jake Raby]

Go ahead and lock this one up- there is bound to be no good from it for anyone, there never is.

The two can't be compared.. Nothing about them or their characteristcs are the same..

And not all /4s are the same- some are totally different than others.. Its very hard for most tuners to get 200 REAL HP from a -4 thats not a grenade, development is the only way we do it...

I haven't built an engine all year that made less than 150 ponies on my dyno..

I'm going over to my forums to finish some tech articles- see ya'll later.. Have fun

[Trekkor]

If I didn't find such a deal on my small six, I think I would have shopped for a $4-6k 3.0 SIX. Spend about $3k to convert.

Last time we heard, I thought 200HP FOUR's are over $15k plus and need constant care or they will suffer. ( explode )

the 115-150 hp FOURs last longer, but that's not 200hp, now is it?

If ( when ) my SIX blows to bits, I'll find that used 3.0 with a warranty and keep moving.


KT

[Bleyseng]

I said "soon".

roller lifters will help alot to be 200hp and last.

If ya want big, get 8.

[Lavanaut]

Go ahead and lock this one up- there is bound to be no good from it for anyone, there never is.

The two can't be compared.. Nothing about them or their characteristcs are the same.

I don't claim to know a fraction of what you all know about these cars, but the above statement (which I see on the board all the time) simply doesn't ring true to me. It's not comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing cars to cars. Are you really saying that after driving a ~200HP 4 for a half hour, then driving a ~200HP 6 for a half hour, the two experiences cannot be compared? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Not trolling here. I'm just one of the many less-experienced folks on this board who I'm sure would love to hear some informed opinions on this topic. I think it's a great question, and I have a feeling that more folks on the board will have educated, experienced feedback for 914fan...so hey Mr. Admin, don't lock this thread just yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Lava

[Bleyseng]

Go ahead and lock this one up- there is bound to be no good from it for anyone, there never is.

The two can't be compared.. Nothing about them or their characteristcs are the same.

I don't claim to know a fraction of what you all know about these cars, but the above statement (which I see on the board all the time) simply doesn't ring true to me. It's not comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing cars to cars. Are you really saying that after driving a ~200HP 4 for a half hour, then driving a ~200HP 6 for a half hour, the two experiences cannot be compared? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Not trolling here. I'm just one of the many less-experienced folks on this board who I'm sure would love to hear some informed opinions on this topic. I think it's a great question, and I have a feeling that more folks on the board will have educated, experienced feedback for 914fan...so hey Mr. Admin, don't lock this thread just yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Lava

the fours hp/torque are at lower revs!
the sixes hp/ torque are at higher revs!

thats the difference.

How does it feel? You have to rev out the six more. big deal.

The difference has been is the fact that the 200hp six is factory and the four are custom.

[IronHillRestorations]

It all depends on displacement. I had a 3.0 SC engine with Webers, and you could start from a dead stop in 3rd gear. It wasn't peaky, but pulled hard until you hit the rev limiter. Those engines have that much torque. There was no problem starting in 2nd. I've drove a couple of 3.2's (Motronic injection) and they were the same way, loads of torque through the entire range.

The smaller displacement sixes are indeed peaky, but those that I know who have such an engine, like the rev factor. You get over 4k rpm and they zing!

Driveability depends on matching the engine to the gearing.

I don't know about the big fours, although I'd love to drive a few.

What's my line here Trekkor? "I don't know anyone who has converted to a six and wishes they have just built a big four".

I respect Jake and everything he's doing, and believe me he knows his stuff.

This issue with 914's is you have a choice to put a Porsche flat six in your car, and for many of us that is very desireable. It is getting much easier and affordable to convert a 914 to a six, better parts, more guys with experience to help, etc.

With a Bug, the best choice is in fact the best air cooled flat four, the type 4.

The fact that the 914 offers us these choices also provides for an endless arguement; four or six.

It's your car do as you wish. You'll find lots of arguements to go both ways.

If it's opinions you want, then my opinion is without hesitation to go with a six.