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> Clutch Help Needed...what's wrong?, lots of pics..."Where' Waldo?"
computers4kids
post Mar 30 2007, 04:10 PM
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Brand new 215 SACHS clutch, pressure plate, throwout, and re-surfaced flywheel. With the trans bolted, and no clutch cable connected, the clutch should be engaged--but it is not. You can also move the clutch arm without too much effort.

Took everything apart and all looks good??? Could the throwout bearing be depressing the plate from some reason when I bolt it all up....which would explain why the clutch is not by default engaged and the clutch arm is not to hard to move? I'm thinking the plate fingers are partially depressed making them easier to move further.

There is one washer under the clutch pivot arm from when I did a new clutch when I had the 1.8 motor.

Looking for ideas...I'm baffled...


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drive-ability
post Mar 30 2007, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE(computers4kids @ Mar 30 2007, 03:10 PM) *

Brand new 215 SACHS clutch, pressure plate, throwout, and re-surfaced flywheel. With the trans bolted, and no clutch cable connected, the clutch should be engaged--but it is not. You can also move the clutch arm without too much effort.

Took everything apart and all looks good??? Could the throwout bearing be depressing the plate from some reason when I bolt it all up....which would explain why the clutch is not by default engaged and the clutch arm is not to hard to move? I'm thinking the plate fingers are partially depressed making them easier to move further.

There is one washer under the clutch pivot arm from when I did a new clutch when I had the 1.8 motor.

Looking for ideas...I'm baffled...


(By what process did you determine the clutch disk was not engaged? ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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computers4kids
post Mar 30 2007, 05:10 PM
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(By what process did you determine the clutch disk was not engaged? ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)Alright...I'm about ready to possibly show my ignorance....

With both rear wheels off the ground and everything back together I was going to adjust the valves and tried rotating one of the wheels to turnover the engine...this is when I realized the wheels and trasmission turned just fine, but the engine would not. I believed since the wheels and tranny turned and I should be able to see through the view hole of the bottom of the trans that the engine would be turning...which it was not.

So I completly took the clutch cable off...still the same.

Put car in gear...started engine...idle...one wheel just slowly turned and I could stop it easily with my foot.
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Kargeek
post Mar 30 2007, 05:39 PM
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When you surface the flywheel aren't you supposed to also surface a like amount of the flywheel mating surface of the clutch housing? Maybe only the flywheel surface was done. You should have some preloading of the clutch pressure plate when you bolted it up. What was it like? DH
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jr91472
post Mar 30 2007, 05:41 PM
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For the motor to turn, one wheel has to be locked so as not to rotate. Put some boards under one tire so that it won't move, then rotate the other wheel and the motor should turn (if in gear).
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Tom
post Mar 30 2007, 05:43 PM
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When you had the flywheel resurfaced, did they also remove the same amount from the area where pressure plate bolts up to?
Tom
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computers4kids
post Mar 30 2007, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE(Kargeek @ Mar 30 2007, 04:39 PM) *

When you surface the flywheel aren't you supposed to also surface a like amount of the flywheel mating surface of the clutch housing? Maybe only the flywheel surface was done. You should have some preloading of the clutch pressure plate when you bolted it up. What was it like? DH


Both flywheel surfaces have been machined...it's much easier to see that in person vs pics. Whe I bought the motor...the new setup was already bolted up...you could see it was all new. Now that I have had to pull the trans and have pulled the pressure plate and disk off I can see everything is indeed new.

As far as the preloading of the clutch...I'm thinking maybe the it is being preloaded too much just from bolting all together.

I searched the forum and almost all the problems I found had to do with a clutch that wouldn't disengage or not enough...not the other way around?
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jr91472
post Mar 30 2007, 05:48 PM
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Now this may or may not apply to your situation. But when I installed my lighten flywheel, I had to add a washer underneath the pivot ball that the clutch forks sits on. This was because the flywheel had some of the surface, where the p-plate mounts, removed.

The extra washer restored the proper spacing. Like I said, the may or may not apply to you.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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computers4kids
post Mar 30 2007, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE(jr91472 @ Mar 30 2007, 04:48 PM) *

Now this may or may not apply to your situation. But when I installed my lighten flywheel, I had to add a washer underneath the pivot ball that the clutch forks sits on. This was because the flywheel had some of the surface, where the p-plate mounts, removed.

The extra washer restored the proper spacing. Like I said, the may or may not apply to you.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


My transmission does have one washer that I placed there when I did a clutch job last year when my motor was a 1.8. I just bolted the 2ltr engine transplant that I purchased right-up to my existing tranny. I figured since you could see the flywheel had just been machined on the 2ltr as it was on my 1.8 when it was in the car...I would need the shim as well again.
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So.Cal.914
post Mar 30 2007, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE(computers4kids @ Mar 30 2007, 04:10 PM) *

(By what process did you determine the clutch disk was not engaged? ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)Alright...I'm about ready to possibly show my ignorance....

With both rear wheels off the ground and everything back together I was going to adjust the valves and tried rotating one of the wheels to turnover the engine...this is when I realized the wheels and trasmission turned just fine, but the engine would not. I believed since the wheels and tranny turned and I should be able to see through the view hole of the bottom of the trans that the engine would be turning...which it was not.

So I completly took the clutch cable off...still the same.

Put car in gear...started engine...idle...one wheel just slowly turned and I could stop it easily with my foot.


If I am reading this right and the transaxle you have does not have a LSD

then it is acting like it should. Unless you chalk up one wheel its just going to spin.

When you turn it one wheel goes one way and one goes the other? Let us know.
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John
post Mar 30 2007, 10:22 PM
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Um, the splines on the disc do match those on the trans input shaft? If not, they won't be coupled together.

You are sure the trans is in gear?
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McMark
post Mar 30 2007, 10:27 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

One wheel must be held from turning by something. If you have both wheels off the ground and turn one wheel, the input shaft (& therefor clutch/flywheel) is not turning. If you have both wheels off the ground and lock one wheel and turn one wheel, AND THE TRANNY IS IN GEAR, then the input shaft will turn.
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SirAndy
post Mar 30 2007, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE(McMark @ Mar 30 2007, 08:27 PM) *

One wheel must be held from turning by something. If you have both wheels off the ground and turn one wheel, the input shaft (& therefor clutch/flywheel) is not turning. If you have both wheels off the ground and lock one wheel and turn one wheel, AND THE TRANNY IS IN GEAR, then the input shaft will turn.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) one wheel needs to be locked for the other to turn the engine ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Andy
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computers4kids
post Mar 31 2007, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE(So.Cal.914 @ Mar 30 2007, 05:47 PM) *

QUOTE(computers4kids @ Mar 30 2007, 04:10 PM) *

(By what process did you determine the clutch disk was not engaged? ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)Alright...I'm about ready to possibly show my ignorance....

With both rear wheels off the ground and everything back together I was going to adjust the valves and tried rotating one of the wheels to turnover the engine...this is when I realized the wheels and trasmission turned just fine, but the engine would not. I believed since the wheels and tranny turned and I should be able to see through the view hole of the bottom of the trans that the engine would be turning...which it was not.

So I completly took the clutch cable off...still the same.

Put car in gear...started engine...idle...one wheel just slowly turned and I could stop it easily with my foot.


If I am reading this right and the transaxle you have does not have a LSD

then it is acting like it should. Unless you chalk up one wheel its just going to spin.

When you turn it one wheel goes one way and one goes the other? Let us know.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) After measuring all the cuts on the flywheel and finding them within tolerance and having a local shop take a peek at my pressure plate and disk, I decided to put it all back in.

Well, I put the tranny back in...from what I read I had too much travel of the clutch arm so I put another washer under the pivot arm...even though it shouldn't have anything to do with my problem mentioned above--Although, a good idea for pedal adjustment.

Fired it and up and low and behold the clutch worked beautifully. Drove around the block and it shifted and ran not to bad considering my MPS won't hold a vaccumm--a good one has been ordered..ouch!

The engine has new rings, bearings...basic rebuild...so I guess I should go through the break-in routine. The motor seems louder than my 1.8...must be the stainless exchangers in lieu of the stock pipes. Or maybe I now have an extra squirrel or two under the hood than before.

So the question is...why did it work this time? Did the washer under the pivot arm do the trick...no that would only help with dis-engaging the clutch.

Either I just did numerous hours of pulling the trans, etc etc for nothing and got lucky, or perhaps the 914 gremlins felt sorry for me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif) .

Can't decide whether to laugh or cry....ah hell, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

As soon as I know it's ship worthy...it's time for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) and the mrs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) to go for a drive!
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drive-ability
post Mar 31 2007, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE(computers4kids @ Mar 31 2007, 04:17 PM) *

QUOTE(So.Cal.914 @ Mar 30 2007, 05:47 PM) *

QUOTE(computers4kids @ Mar 30 2007, 04:10 PM) *

(By what process did you determine the clutch disk was not engaged? ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)Alright...I'm about ready to possibly show my ignorance....

With both rear wheels off the ground and everything back together I was going to adjust the valves and tried rotating one of the wheels to turnover the engine...this is when I realized the wheels and trasmission turned just fine, but the engine would not. I believed since the wheels and tranny turned and I should be able to see through the view hole of the bottom of the trans that the engine would be turning...which it was not.

So I completly took the clutch cable off...still the same.

Put car in gear...started engine...idle...one wheel just slowly turned and I could stop it easily with my foot.


If I am reading this right and the transaxle you have does not have a LSD

then it is acting like it should. Unless you chalk up one wheel its just going to spin.

When you turn it one wheel goes one way and one goes the other? Let us know.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) After measuring all the cuts on the flywheel and finding them within tolerance and having a local shop take a peek at my pressure plate and disk, I decided to put it all back in.

Well, I put the tranny back in...from what I read I had too much travel of the clutch arm so I put another washer under the pivot arm...even though it shouldn't have anything to do with my problem mentioned above--Although, a good idea for pedal adjustment.

Fired it and up and low and behold the clutch worked beautifully. Drove around the block and it shifted and ran not to bad considering my MPS won't hold a vaccumm--a good one has been ordered..ouch!

The engine has new rings, bearings...basic rebuild...so I guess I should go through the break-in routine. The motor seems louder than my 1.8...must be the stainless exchangers in lieu of the stock pipes. Or maybe I now have an extra squirrel or two under the hood than before.

So the question is...why did it work this time? Did the washer under the pivot arm do the trick...no that would only help with dis-engaging the clutch.

Either I just did numerous hours of pulling the trans, etc etc for nothing and got lucky, or perhaps the 914 gremlins felt sorry for me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif) .

Can't decide whether to laugh or cry....ah hell, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

As soon as I know it's ship worthy...it's time for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) and the mrs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) to go for a drive!


Who here hasn't done something like this ?
Last month I removed my 930 transmission because I was sure I snapped the T/0 bearing just as I did a year before. After removing the transmission everything looked fine??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) ?? I looked a bit closer and found the outer clutch fork broke at the splines. That was one clip, a bolt and off it would come. I went the long way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) . I just jumped in too fast. In your case at least you were thinking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
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So.Cal.914
post Mar 31 2007, 06:08 PM
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It happens.
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