Name These Brakes, For mystery lovers |
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Name These Brakes, For mystery lovers |
bigkensteele |
Apr 12 2007, 09:38 PM
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#1
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Major Member Group: Members Posts: 2,197 Joined: 30-August 04 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 2,660 Region Association: South East States |
Quick story of origin. My cousin bought an old Beetle cab a few years back that had been converted to Porsche 5 lug. The fronts were a disc kit, and the rears were drilled drums. However, these rear brakes came with the car, and he gave them to me. He has no idea what kind of car they came from, and neither do I.
- Bolt spacing is same as Porsche 5 lug - Calipers are ATE, 3.75" spacing, single piston, no PN found - Hubs are 12 spline stamped Germany SHW 477 501 605 - Backing plates are stampted with a similar 477 xxx xxx number - Parking brake assembly similar to 911 inside disc - Spacing on 4 mount holes is 3.5" diagonal - Discs are vented, 11 3/8 (290mm) Given the design of the caliper, these appear to be old, like sixties old. Pics: |
bigkensteele |
Apr 12 2007, 10:04 PM
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#2
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Major Member Group: Members Posts: 2,197 Joined: 30-August 04 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 2,660 Region Association: South East States |
I know:
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif) I am still trying to get decent pics that are small enough to attach. |
bigkensteele |
Apr 12 2007, 10:12 PM
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#3
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Major Member Group: Members Posts: 2,197 Joined: 30-August 04 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 2,660 Region Association: South East States |
Pics as promised.
Attached image(s) |
boxstr |
Apr 12 2007, 10:18 PM
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#4
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MEMBER:PACIFIC NORTHWEST REGION Group: Members Posts: 7,522 Joined: 25-December 02 From: OREGON Member No.: 12 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Appear to be BMW brakes/calipers.
CCLIN914NATION |
Eric_Shea |
Apr 12 2007, 10:22 PM
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#5
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,278 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Porsche 924 hub and backing plates. Probably a 924 or 944 (or even 911) rotor, hard to tell.
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Eric_Shea |
Apr 12 2007, 10:24 PM
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#6
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,278 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Single piston floating calipers would be 80's not 60's BTW... I would guess Rabbit or some other varient. I've never seen single piston BMW calipers so I'll defer to Craig on that one.
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911quest |
Apr 12 2007, 10:34 PM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: 26-March 06 From: Louisville Ky Member No.: 5,773 Region Association: South East States |
[They are not Rabbit brakes I'am think they are possible the old Audi "RING brakes" they used in the early to mid 80's but like most beetle disc brakes they are a mixed match of Brazialian and Mexican parts off of god know's what
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bigkensteele |
Apr 12 2007, 10:52 PM
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#8
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Major Member Group: Members Posts: 2,197 Joined: 30-August 04 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 2,660 Region Association: South East States |
I should have mentioned that none of the parts have a logo on them. I have owned VWs, BMWs, Porsches and an Audi, and as I recall parts on all of these cars had a logo or emblem stamped somewhere.
A couple of years ago, I called a few dealerships to see if they could back-reference the part numbers, and they couldn't. However, the VW, Porsche, and (I think BMW) guys all said that a 477 part number did not sound familiar. Don't recall if I called Mercedes, but again, I would assume that they would stamp most of their parts with the logo at least. I think that VW is out, because I can't think of any VW that would have had rear vented discs with rotors that large. Not sure who else shared the same lug spacing as Porsche, but my old Audi A4 looked a lot tighter than Porsche spacing. Thanks for all replies, Ken |
Eric_Shea |
Apr 12 2007, 11:01 PM
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#9
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,278 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
924's have the 477.501.xxx sequence. So again, probably 924/early 944 stuff. Most 924's were 4-bolt with drum rears (477.501.615A) but some were the 5-lug. That's my guess.
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Matt Romanowski |
Apr 13 2007, 06:50 AM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 878 Joined: 4-January 04 From: Manchester, NH Member No.: 1,507 |
Try Toyota....
I think all the 924 have 4 lug. Only the 924S is five lug. 924S calipers are 944 part numbers and early 924 parts are also 944 part numbers. The lines / wheel cyclinders are 477 numbers. |
JWest |
Apr 13 2007, 07:50 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,662 Joined: 6-January 03 From: Fort Worth, TX Member No.: 97 Region Association: None |
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davep |
Apr 13 2007, 08:11 AM
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#12
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914 Historian Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,154 Joined: 13-October 03 From: Burford, ON, N0E 1A0 Member No.: 1,244 Region Association: Canada |
944
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r_towle |
Apr 13 2007, 08:44 AM
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#13
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,591 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
Seeing as the 944 independant rear suspension tube, bars, plates, and arms are all the same parts as a super beetle, I would vote that those are from a 944, and should bolt right on pretty easy.
The entire suspension from the super beetle rear was copied for the 944. I am sure some dimensions on the brakes are different, but the tubes, trailing arms, and control arms are a simple bolt on switch. Rich |
bigkensteele |
Apr 13 2007, 08:54 AM
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#14
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Major Member Group: Members Posts: 2,197 Joined: 30-August 04 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 2,660 Region Association: South East States |
James, thanks for the link. Looking at the parts diagram, it would seem that these are indeed 944 brakes. That makes you, Eric and Dave the winners, or biggest nerds, depending on how you want to look at it.
NOW, the real question. Has anyone ever used 944 rears on a 914 to get the vented rotor and floating caliper??? |
r_towle |
Apr 13 2007, 09:11 AM
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#15
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,591 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
I think its possible, but not so easy.
If you decide to sell them, I would buy the setup for another project (SB) that I have. Rich |
Tobra |
Apr 13 2007, 09:42 AM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,453 Joined: 22-August 05 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 4,634 |
looks to me like it is embossed Germany BMW
If it is a Super Beetle, I would almost guarantee they are 944 brakes without even looking at them. |
davep |
Apr 13 2007, 09:43 AM
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#17
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914 Historian Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,154 Joined: 13-October 03 From: Burford, ON, N0E 1A0 Member No.: 1,244 Region Association: Canada |
NOW, the real question. Has anyone ever used 944 rears on a 914 to get the vented rotor and floating caliper??? Why? The vented brake setup that Eric and I sell is simple, easy, uses mostly stock components and pretty much bolts right up. It even keeps the stock parking brake. |
bigkensteele |
Apr 13 2007, 10:51 AM
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#18
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Major Member Group: Members Posts: 2,197 Joined: 30-August 04 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 2,660 Region Association: South East States |
NOW, the real question. Has anyone ever used 944 rears on a 914 to get the vented rotor and floating caliper??? Why? The vented brake setup that Eric and I sell is simple, easy, uses mostly stock components and pretty much bolts right up. It even keeps the stock parking brake. How thick are the hub spaces in the kits (how much closer will my tire be to my fender lip)? Looks like about 1/4". Does this require longer studs? Would it be feasible to machine the same amount off the caliper mounting tabs? |
Eric_Shea |
Apr 13 2007, 11:24 AM
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#19
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,278 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
5mm or "basically" 1/4".
You mentioned getting hubs, I have 45 and 50mm studs in stock. You can easily pull your fenders out "by hand" 1/4". Machining the caliper mounting tabs would not be my first choice... |
bigkensteele |
Apr 13 2007, 12:47 PM
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#20
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Major Member Group: Members Posts: 2,197 Joined: 30-August 04 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 2,660 Region Association: South East States |
5mm or "basically" 1/4". You mentioned getting hubs, I have 45 and 50mm studs in stock. You can easily pull your fenders out "by hand" 1/4". Machining the caliper mounting tabs would not be my first choice... The reason I ask is that I have a lot of room in my fenders with 205/50/15s on my 5.5"s. I am hoping that I will be able to go with 15x7s without too much fender work. Don't know if 5mm will make that much difference in the end. Of course I could try to find 5 other people who want flares... Thanks, Eric. You will be getting some of my money soon. Ken |
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