CHP gives cliff a smog ticket for his teener Options

[Chris Hamilton]

Has a 2.0 with webers. Sounds like some kind of fixit ticket. Do 1971 teeners have to smog? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) How would a six ever smog since those came with carbs too?

Do we have any california law experts here to explain this?

[DanT]

has nothing specifically about the carbs, it is about changing from stock equipment.
Obviously this CHP officer knew something about 914 4 cylinder cars and that they all came stock with EFI. Just because the car does not have to be smogged, does not mean that all the proper smog related equipment does not have to be present.
This is one of the reasons I put D-jet back on my 2056 when I built it.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Why did he get pulled over to begin with?

[Chris Hamilton]

Got pulled over for having an old car with a crappy paint job really. The thing is all primered right now while he decides what kind of fenders he's going to put on it. You'll see it tomorrow at Alameda.

So the stock equipment, how does that work? Does that mean all of the 6-cylinder and v8 conversions are illegal?

[DanT]

if they can not pass a smog test, visual and actual.

must have been some reason why he pulled him over.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

oh well.

yes, alot of 75 and older cars (including Porsches) are illegal by the letter of the California smog laws.

[Joe Bob]

I'd like to see the CVC or other code it was written under. BTW, unless he opened the deck lid himself, they need a search warrant to look under the hood....

[ericread]

Any bets he asked the driver if he could have a look under the hood? Once you open the engine compartment to his/her review, all bet are off. The officer no longer needs "Probable Cause".

And the truth is, no longer is "Probable Cause" a requirement. It has been supplanted by "Reasonable Cause"

In over simplified terms, probable cause exist[s] where the known facts and circumstances are sufficient to warrant a man of reasonable prudence in the belief that contraband or evidence of a crime will be found, Ornelas v. United States, 517 U.S. 690, 696 (1996); Illinois v. Gates, 462 U.S. 213, 238 (1983).

Under a similar gloss, reasonable suspicion is a standard, more than a hunch but considerably below preponderance of the evidence, which justifies an officer's investigative stop of an individual upon the articulable and particularized belief that criminal activity is afoot, Ornelas v. United States, 517 U.S. at 695; Illinois v. Gates, 462 U.S. at 235.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

[Gint]

If the car blew the slightest bit of visible smoke the officer already had cause. Visible smoke is a criteria for failure for emissions.

[rick 918-S]

If the car blew the slightest bit of visible smoke the officer already had cause. Visible smoke is a criteria for failure for emissions.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) That's what I was going to say. If yer smoking the officer has probable cause. The search is on even as a saftey precausion. At the least he can safely assume you have the start of an engine fire. If he finds other evidence during the search..well your history.

[Chris Hamilton]

Is there some way for those of us here that have improved 914s to legally drive our cars then?

I don't understand why some guy with a 30's roadster can put a blown 426 cube hemi in his car, but I can't put aftermarket EFI on my little 4 cylinder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[Joe Bob]

For an excessive smoke violation or visible emissions citation you look at the tailpipe......not for popping the hood.

I trained these guys to go after Ricers doing intake mods using parts w/o "executive orders" markings. Visible emissions, they go to smoke school and are VEE certified and rate smoke to the US Mines Ringlemann Scale.

They can't pop the hood unless the driver agrees to do so...

[rick 918-S]

I'm not from the gold coast, but I would think if your car is not required to get inspected any longer, just be sure it's not sending up any flags.

[0396]

Is there some way for those of us here that have improved 914s to legally drive our cars then?

I don't understand why some guy with a 30's roadster can put a blown 426 cube hemi in his car, but I can't put aftermarket EFI on my little 4 cylinder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I had always wonder about this very same thing…
My car is ‘street ‘ license / insured- but I never drive it on the street –because I DON’T
Want to get hassled for a fix it ticket like no front plates and or wipers.

Can I put those things on sure, but then I can’t drive it like I want- thus I putt along in my 83 320i

[So.Cal.914]

How many of you have left your wallet at home and discovered it later. Did you

drive home? That was illegal. Point? 1983 I put webers on my 914. Drove it as a

DD for years. Not one problem. I thought this and Mike's statement fit the best.

but I would think if your car is not required to get inspected any longer, just be sure it's not sending up any flags.

If you do get pulled over, and you have more money in your car than a laywer would cost, then refuse to open it. Insist on a search warrent.

[biosurfer1]

I know police officer's are supposed to enforce all law's but come on, this guy had SO much time on his hands to pull over a 914 for probably "a puff of smoke", then decides to investigate and write a ticket because the engine is not stock, even though its a pre-smog car?!

99% of the time I'm pro-law enforcement and know they have a tough job but geeze, this guy needs to prioritize his time

[Joe Bob]

Back in the day, I got yanked over by some rookie CHP in my lowered 56 ragtop. He wrote me everything under the sun, including failure to notify the DMV on an engine change.

The reg was for motorcycles, I also wrote down his comments and had a talk with his Supervisor....he just happened to have taught a traffic school that I recently attended...yeah surprising, I had a speeding ticket....

Anyways, the ticket was taken by his Sarge and I later heard the shitbag got a weeks unpaid vacation.....never even had to fix that ticket....

Just because it's written on a ticket doesn't mean it's valid.

That's why I suggest posting the CVC or other reg he wrote him up for. I'm pretty good at this stuff as I do it for a living....

[Wes V]

Time for a diatribe and state some facts about smog laws in Calif;

Most of this I know from working on modified Hondas (which the cops like to target)

All smog laws apply to our cars! You can not legally modify any smog related items unless you are using items that have an EO number issued by the state.


1975 and older are not smog excempt! The only break is that we don't have to have smog checks in order to register the car.

EO numbers are certificates that are issued to a part by the state. In order for a manufacturer to get an EO number for their product, they have to pay for extensive testing (BIG bucks) to prove to the state that using that part will not increase smog.

ECU's can not be modified in any manner.

Engine swaps are legal but the rules are extensive and can be tricky. The engine has to be from a car, not truck (a Honda CRV engine is considered a "truck" engine and couldn't be used). The engine has to be from a newer (or same) year car. ALL of the smog related items from the original car have to be included in the swap. Even the orientation matters. If the source engine originally was mounted transversly, you couldn't mount it longtudinally (a VW VR6 only came transversly mounted and as such, you couldn't mount it to a 901 transmission and be legal)

If you had an original 914/6 and put in a latter 911 engine, you would also have to have all of the smog equipment that came with that engine.

How do I know all this shit?? Well, my last project car was a 89 Honda Civic and I swapped in a 95 Acura Integra GSR motor.

To do the swap and be legal, I had to convert the EFI to the OBD1 system used in the Integra. I then had to go to the state Referee Station to have the swap "certified". Once the swap has been totally checked (and a smog check is performed), a label is attached to the car (by the referee) stating that future smog checks are to be performed as if it's a 95 Integra. Any aftermarket parts have have EO numbers that apply to the original source car (the headers were DC Sport, with EO numbers for the Integra)

The big thing however is that the cops like to check out the Honda guys. Us 914 guys are more "respectable" and less prone to get checked.

All that said, I'm planning on putting an Audi V6 in my 1975 914. I've kept the idea of having to pass the Referee process though all of my planning, should it become an issue.

Wes Vann

[r_towle]

Time for a diatribe and state some facts about smog laws in Calif;

1975 and older are not smog excempt! The only break is that we don't have to have smog checks in order to register the car.

Wes Vann

Just curious.
A pre 1975 car never has to open the hood for an inspection, visual nor smog?
If that is true, I would always ask for a search warrant.
If a 914/4 shows up with a carbed 914/6 motor, that probably produces more smog...that is ok, considering it would have all the original "smog" equipment...meaning none..??

Rich

[JeffBowlsby]

All 914/4s have at least some smog equipment. See the list at the bottom of my webpage:

http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/Emissions.htm

[So.Cal.914]

Time for a diatribe and state some facts about smog laws in Calif;

1975 and older are not smog excempt! The only break is that we don't have to have smog checks in order to register the car.

Wes Vann

Just curious.
A pre 1975 car never has to open the hood for an inspection, visual nor smog?
If that is true, I would always ask for a search warrant.
If a 914/4 shows up with a carbed 914/6 motor, that probably produces more smog...that is ok, considering it would have all the original "smog" equipment...meaning none..??

Rich

The engine has to be from a newer (or same) year car. ALL of the smog related items from the original car have to be included in the swap.

From his list. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

A slight clarification: The smog rule is that the equipment has to be correct and complete for either the engine or the chassis, whichever is newer. You can put a '32 Ford engine in your '72 914, but it has to have functional D-jetronic EFI, evap, vacuum controlled hot air riser, vacuum controlled spark advance and retard, and an oil bath air cleaner, and it must pass tailpipe emissions testing as appropriate for the area in which the car is registered. Conversely, you can put that 1.7L teener motor in the model A, but it has to be equipped as it was when the engine was certified for sale in 1972. As was mentioned earlier, the test exemption is just that: a test exemption. The state may, at it's discretion, compel you to have it inspected for both equipment and for emissions levels.

The Cap'n