Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> Camshaft recommendation for PMO'd 2.4S ?
amallagh
post Jul 16 2008, 05:13 PM
Post #1


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 103
Joined: 4-September 06
From: Cheshire, England
Member No.: 6,767



I've recently converted my 914-6 to a 2.4S spec engine with PMO 40 carbs.

The engine/heads are standard S spec but with 2.2S pistons giving about 9.3:1 compression rather and the std 8.5:1.

Can any one recommend a specific cam profile/supplier that is optimised for use on carbs with an S spec engine ?
If the std S cams from an MFI engine are considered to the the best for this application then I would be happy to hear your experiences.
I'm looking for a fast road cam to give me similar performance to the std S cams on MFI. The car is used on the road as well as for competition, so I need something smoothy and tractible at low RPM.

Regards
Andrew
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Replies
J P Stein
post Jul 17 2008, 07:31 PM
Post #2


Irrelevant old fart
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,797
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Vancouver, WA
Member No.: 45
Region Association: None



The big "problem" with S cams is duration and the consequent overlap. They work fine with MFI.....tho the bottom end is nothing to shout about, but carbs & MFI are horses of a different color.
MFI delivers fuel below the butterflies and has tall stacks. Carbs deliver fuel above the butterflies...close to the top of the carb, in fact, and have shorter stacks. What this all means is fuel reversion.....a nice spray of semi-atomized sitting in layers above the carb stacks. This gets sucked into the carbs when the engine starts to efficiently scavenge....around 5K rpms for an S cam. Below there, this reversion raises hell with the tune....particularly when enclosed in your....normal K & N filter with hat.....fuel bouncing all over hell & gone. One of the main reasons to avoid long duration cams in a street motor mit carbs.

The Solex profile is less prone to this as is the E. Tuning is still a stinker. Run the idles & mains rich enuff to avoid the dreaded Weber flat spot and you foul plugs regular like. The solution here is a hot CD ignition & coil (I use MSD) with a bit fat plug gap (.045-.050)....ya prolly ought to have some hi-po plug wires to handle the voltage....to burn thru the rich mixture....a bandaid that keeps your plugs clean.

The 2.4L motors had wimpy compression. Another point or so will reward you with more hp & torque and street gas will work fine....up to about 9.5:1.

Thas about all I think I know.

Note that the dyno chart above shows 225-230 hp at the crank (figuring a 15% drive line loss)& 210 ish ft/lbs of torque The famous 2.7L RS motor was rated at 210 & 188 at the crank(Probably conservative) with MFI. OK, so I run 10:1ish compression, Solex, carbs, & race gas. It's a great AX motor where low down (relatively) torque is king. The mileage sux.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ArtechnikA
post Jul 17 2008, 07:46 PM
Post #3


rich herzog
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,390
Joined: 4-April 03
From: Salted Roads, PA
Member No.: 513
Region Association: None



QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 17 2008, 09:31 PM) *

MFI delivers fuel below the butterflies and has tall stacks. Carbs deliver fuel above the butterflies...close to the top of the carb, in fact, and have shorter stacks.

As I know you know, the big difference here is that MFI delivers the fuel once always, in a shot calibrated to rpm and throttle position, and has no airflow sensor at all.

Carbs work by pressure differential of the passing airstream sucking in the gas.

The airstream passes the fuel delivery stuff once when 'on the cam.' When you've got reversion, as you do with big overlaps, the airstream passes the fuel delivery stuff once on intake, then again during the reversion, and the fuel metering stuff just knows pressure differential - it does not know the direction of the airstream. Finally it's sucked back in yet again, passing the fuel delivery bits a third time, picking up even more gas.

No wonder the suckers run rich...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
amallagh   Camshaft recommendation for PMO'd 2.4S ?   Jul 16 2008, 05:13 PM
brant   Andrew, have you driven an S cam MFI vehicle? if...   Jul 16 2008, 05:28 PM
ArtechnikA   ...so if you need something more tractable, then ...   Jul 17 2008, 06:52 AM
J P Stein   Solex or E cams are the cat's ass for a street...   Jul 16 2008, 06:01 PM
396   Solex or E cams are the cat's ass for a stree...   Jul 16 2008, 07:29 PM
scotty b   +1 for Solex :driving: S is great once you hit 6...   Jul 16 2008, 08:14 PM
Phoenix-MN   :agree: B)-->
QUOTE(scotty b ...   Jul 16 2008, 08:19 PM
Root_Werks   :agree: B)--><div class='quotetop...   Jul 24 2008, 11:21 AM
amallagh   Excuse my ignorance but what exactly in a Solex gr...   Jul 17 2008, 03:01 PM
Phoenix-MN   I think "Solex" was coined from the very...   Jul 17 2008, 04:16 PM
ArtechnikA   I think "Solex" was coined from the ver...   Jul 17 2008, 06:27 PM
amallagh   Great info, thankyou. So is the Solex cam specifi...   Jul 17 2008, 07:02 PM
ArtechnikA   So is the Solex cam specifically optimised for us...   Jul 17 2008, 07:39 PM
J P Stein   The big "problem" with S cams is duratio...   Jul 17 2008, 07:31 PM
ArtechnikA   MFI delivers fuel below the butterflies and has t...   Jul 17 2008, 07:46 PM
J P Stein   Tho I can't prove it, I suspect the MFI, S com...   Jul 17 2008, 08:38 PM
scotty b   Tho I can't prove it, I suspect the MFI, S co...   Jul 17 2008, 08:43 PM
ArtechnikA   Tho I can't prove it, I suspect the MFI, S co...   Jul 17 2008, 09:51 PM
brant   You've opened a big mystery box now there are ...   Jul 17 2008, 08:42 PM
ArtechnikA   by the way, you can get GE grinds for 3 bearing s...   Jul 17 2008, 10:01 PM
brant   did we ever establish if those are available for ...   Jul 17 2008, 10:09 PM
ArtechnikA   I know they exist I wish I knew you were looking ...   Jul 17 2008, 11:47 PM
amallagh   So if I glean some of the different opinions expre...   Jul 18 2008, 03:23 AM
ArtechnikA   If the Solex cam is ideal for a PMO set up with S...   Jul 18 2008, 05:32 AM
J P Stein   Like most of these old parts (or old style), findi...   Jul 18 2008, 07:29 AM
ArtechnikA   I forget exactly where I got these....no matter, ...   Jul 18 2008, 10:13 AM
J P Stein   The "ideal" cams for carbs would be the ...   Jul 18 2008, 07:49 AM
J P Stein   40s...sorry about the lousy pic. :D   Jul 18 2008, 05:01 PM
ArtechnikA   40s...sorry about the lousy pic. Actually it...   Jul 18 2008, 05:14 PM
TimT   Amallagh, I have a set of WebCam 158R grind cams,...   Jul 18 2008, 07:29 PM
amallagh   Amallagh, I have a set of WebCam 158R grind cams...   Jul 23 2008, 04:30 PM
6freak   Amallagh, I have a set of WebCam 158R grind cam...   Jul 24 2008, 10:42 AM
TimT   I forgot to add, I have dyno plots somwhere of t...   Jul 18 2008, 07:38 PM
J P Stein   Hay, Tim, that is a good buy.   Jul 18 2008, 09:20 PM
6freak   Hay, Tim, that is a good buy. Sent the man a P...   Jul 23 2008, 09:47 AM
sixnotfour   the cam card is listed on the website, looked at i...   Jul 24 2008, 10:48 AM
amallagh   the cam card is listed on the website, looked at ...   Jul 24 2008, 01:29 PM
J P Stein   Solex & S cams have the same 97 deg lobe cent...   Jul 24 2008, 07:06 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 2nd April 2026 - 03:39 PM
...