HELP Car waiting for tow, problem diagnosis., Starter issue? |
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HELP Car waiting for tow, problem diagnosis., Starter issue? |
klikkid3 |
Aug 27 2008, 01:22 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 2-July 08 From: san bernardino Member No.: 9,242 Region Association: Southern California |
So I recently get done with my front bearing project and the car was running so smooth and nice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) that I had that fear in the back of my mind about when it was all going to end. Well today I was coasting down mountain ave when the light changed so I down shifted into third, and it started. The starter is staying engaged with or without the key in. I pulled over and popped the lid and disconnected the negative terminal. Checked the wiring at the selenoid which looked normal, every time I reconnect the battery the starter engages and attempts to start the car. What do you all think? There is the obvious replace the starter but any other suggestions? I have a tow kit on it so I will try and get it home to take a closer look. Help!
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RoadGlue |
Aug 30 2008, 01:55 PM
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#2
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Sonoma County Gear Head Group: Admin Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 108 Region Association: Northern California |
On second look, I think it's just a trick of the perspective, light, etc.
Just unplug the red wire from the top connector for the moment and then hook up the battery again. It's a super easy test, and if the starter still engages, then you know that the solenoid has taken a big dump. |
klikkid3 |
Aug 30 2008, 02:24 PM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 2-July 08 From: san bernardino Member No.: 9,242 Region Association: Southern California |
On second look, I think it's just a trick of the perspective, light, etc. Just unplug the red wire from the top connector for the moment and then hook up the battery again. It's a super easy test, and if the starter still engages, then you know that the solenoid has taken a big dump. Ok it doesnt turn over when the red wire is taken off, I am predicting that the new starter switch shorted and melted and the yellow wire also melted somewhere in between and is shorting on metal which is causing the starter to engage. Is it possible to attach a new yellow wire and pull it all the way through the car to the ignition? |
ArtechnikA |
Aug 30 2008, 06:35 PM
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#4
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
I am predicting that the ...yellow wire also melted somewhere in between and is shorting on metal which is causing the starter to engage. The yellow wire is power. if it is shorting to ground, not only will the starter not be engaging, but you'll be able to find the location by the thick clouds of acrid smoke. So it ain't that. I suppose it is marginally possible that it is somehow connected (fused/melted) to the Big Red wire, but I am skeptical about that... |
klikkid3 |
Aug 30 2008, 06:41 PM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 2-July 08 From: san bernardino Member No.: 9,242 Region Association: Southern California |
I am predicting that the ...yellow wire also melted somewhere in between and is shorting on metal which is causing the starter to engage. The yellow wire is power. if it is shorting to ground, not only will the starter not be engaging, but you'll be able to find the location by the thick clouds of acrid smoke. So it ain't that. I suppose it is marginally possible that it is somehow connected (fused/melted) to the Big Red wire, but I am skeptical about that... I would almost welcome a cloud of smoke so I would at least know what the problem was, I checked the volt meter, I have 18 volts at the red wire attached to the top spade, 0 volts at the yellow wire with the key out, will it only show a reading when the key is turned? I have the red wire disconnected, when I touch it to the spade on the starter it begins to turn over, yellow wire has no effect. |
ArtechnikA |
Aug 30 2008, 07:02 PM
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#6
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
...I have 18 volts at the red wire attached to the top spade, 0 volts at the yellow wire with the key out, will it only show a reading when the key is turned? I have the red wire disconnected, when I touch it to the spade on the starter it begins to turn over, yellow wire has no effect. if you -really- have 18V you definitely have a myriad of electrical issues. 13.6 is a real good number for a healthy charging system with the engine running. if you have 18V all bets are off - it could even be multiple bad diodes in the alternator. Please recheck that value (and your meter, on some kind of calibrated source - like a 9V radio battery...) What you have described is the way it's supposed to work. Here's the background on the way it works. *basically* - the solenoid is a relay. With an extra function. The Big Red Wire is connected directly to the battery for maximum current while cranking. What's -supposed- to happen when you turn the key is that current is supplied to the solenoid via the yellow wire. The first thing that happens next is that the electromagnet in the solenoid sucks down the plunger and that, by way of leverage, forces the starter gear into mechanical coupling with the flywheel ring gear. *then* (essentially simultaneously) a switch contact is made providing Big Red Wire power to the starter motor. So - the solenoid connects the starter to the ring gear mechanically, and connects the starter motor to the battery electrically. if connecting power to the solenoid spade -without- connecting it to the normal Big Red Wire lug makes the solenoid engage -and- runs the starter motor, turning over the engine, I think you have some kind of wierd internal short/connection. You should not be able to power the starter motor from the solenoid spade. |
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