Patina, can a 914 "have" it, or isn't it old or valuable enough? Options

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

I see recently that a 1939 Talbot-Lago went for $4,847,000. Yes there were only a handful (less than 30) made, yes, the Talbot marque is much revered, yes, the car has racing history, and yes, it's a "survivor". But "no interior door trim", "leather seat stiff and cracked", "most instruments and controls fitted", "oxidized and chipped paint applied by brush in places" , and "there are crudely welded metal pieces..."

The reason for this preamble is to determine at what point a "survivor" needs to be restored and refinished, as opposed to leaving it alone and preseving its "patina", if a 914 can have such a thing.

It's been said that a car is original just once, and once it's redone, the direct link to its origins is lost forever, even if it's only a sympathetic repaint.

My '70/4, repainted by the only previous owner in 1973 after a disasterous hail storm, lost its originality staus then. Though the paint held up surprisingly well over the subsequent 30+ years, rust was becoming ever more evident on the lower extremities of the front fenders, around the door handles and the rollbar area. Not quite so evident to the casual observer, rust had also taken its toll in the usual 914 problem spots (hell hole, floor pan). No chance at preservation or patina with my car

I'd live with paint chips on the nose (proud evidence of road use), even door dings left by careless motorists (my blood runs hot at such wanton disregard), and moderately faded/scratched/crazed exterior paint would not, by itself, prompt me to repaint and restore. But blistering, rotting, eroding, corroding sheetmetal only hints at what evil deterioration lies beneath painted surfaces.

So, if it's rusted, I'd cut it out and refinish and repaint. If the metal was solid, straight and intact, I'd do all I could to keep the paint intact, preserving the originality and maintaining the "patina".

Finally, if anyone has a /4 or /6 with the aforementioned "patina", I'd like to see some photos and history. Thanks.


Paul

[mrgreenjeans]

Interesting analysis on both of your parts regarding the issues facing our cars.

I am also a true believer in originality and am somewhat repulsed at what one can do to sheetmetal with enough time, patience, torches, and cutting wheels.

If it can all be used to the effect of preserving an historical aspect to a living , viable, piece of automotive genius, then all is well. But if these tools are used the wrong way, the result is a loss to the community of true believers. Vandalism is the end result. Desecration is the enduring effort. And we are all left with an emotional turmoil to deal with.

I had an original patina 2.0 that had too many garage bumps and bruises, and far too many door dings from the same apparent abuser. READ : Previous owner / assaulter.
It was a dry western car, zero rust, and no Hell - hole problems. It had one broken rear trunk hinge, and needed a cleanup that would have never resulted in a car that I would have been happy with. The finish was all original and had survived over 20 years and 60,000 miles. It required a complete block sanding and removal of much of the original paint to bring the issues of door dings to an end. The areas of surface wear on both lids from a constant sliding of boxes and grocery sacks across the paint, could have been possibly saved and wet sanded back to its original luster, but the choice was made to do a total repaint to bring all surfaces into a harmonious lustre. It was worth it. The 5 coats of yellow and 4 coats of clear brought it into the perfect light it deserves to shine in. Done in 95, it still shows as a very good to excellent show finish. Of course it has traveled less than 1500 miles since then, but what a joy those have been !

Yes, they are only original once. But, what a joy to see the look of admirers faces, reflected in a near perfect finish on a warm , sunny day. Surrounded by the Faithful , and their beautiful little cars from the land of the Mysterious air-coolers, a once original teener wears a new suit of clothes. Happy to be once again looking nearly as he did the day he was born.

[Pat Garvey]

Interesting analysis on both of your parts regarding the issues facing our cars.

I am also a true believer in originality and am somewhat repulsed at what one can do to sheetmetal with enough time, patience, torches, and cutting wheels.

If it can all be used to the effect of preserving an historical aspect to a living , viable, piece of automotive genius, then all is well. But if these tools are used the wrong way, the result is a loss to the community of true believers. Vandalism is the end result. Desecration is the enduring effort. And we are all left with an emotional turmoil to deal with.

I had an original patina 2.0 that had too many garage bumps and bruises, and far too many door dings from the same apparent abuser. READ : Previous owner / assaulter.
It was a dry western car, zero rust, and no Hell - hole problems. It had one broken rear trunk hinge, and needed a cleanup that would have never resulted in a car that I would have been happy with. The finish was all original and had survived over 20 years and 60,000 miles. It required a complete block sanding and removal of much of the original paint to bring the issues of door dings to an end. The areas of surface wear on both lids from a constant sliding of boxes and grocery sacks across the paint, could have been possibly saved and wet sanded back to its original luster, but the choice was made to do a total repaint to bring all surfaces into a harmonious lustre. It was worth it. The 5 coats of yellow and 4 coats of clear brought it into the perfect light it deserves to shine in. Done in 95, it still shows as a very good to excellent show finish. Of course it has traveled less than 1500 miles since then, but what a joy those have been !

Yes, they are only original once. But, what a joy to see the look of admirers faces, reflected in a near perfect finish on a warm , sunny day. Surrounded by the Faithful , and their beautiful little cars from the land of the Mysterious air-coolers, a once original teener wears a new suit of clothes. Happy to be once again looking nearly as he did the day he was born.

Agree!

Besides, where does "originality" end? Replacement of rotted vacuum hoses, for example? - even if replaced with original parts, they aren't original to the car. There are hundreds of other examples, most of which are maintenance related also.

4 coats of clearcoat on a yellow car......? Well, it may not be original paint technique, but then again, those hoses I mentioned earlier probably aren't made to the original manufacturing techniques either. So, when something is NLA as a replacement part by the Factory (yet a Factory acceptable part is officially designated), does that mean originality suffers. Ex: the original waffle-type battery cover. Deemed NG in the mid-70's & replaced by a Factory acceptable, cobbled up Audi cover as part of a recall campaign. Since the Factory "authorized" this replacement part, does that make it unoriginal? Would we be more pure to not accept a safety-related item replacement?

Patina be damned! Except in the most rare cases, "maintenance" must be performed to keep the car from the salvage yard. But (my belief only), "maintenance should be to the highest level of originality as possible, with some degree of lattitude towards contemporary materials, if not available from the Factory.

MHO