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> Need transmission problem diagnosis..., Or best guess
Porsche Rescue
post Jun 28 2009, 02:45 PM
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Started my '70 tail shifter this morning, attempted to engage reverse and heardf/felt a horrible grind (kind of like the clutch pedal was not depressed, but it was). Quickly returned to neutral and tried again. I engaged reverse OK and backed out of the garage. But I heard a grinding/growling noise while moving and felt the sensation of something restricting movement (like brake on, but it wasnt'). Moved it back and forth in the driveway in all gears. It makes the same noise in all 5 forward gears as soon as I release the clutch. Reverse now seems almost OK.

Where do I start? Could it be a linkage issue (the front two bushings were new a few months ago)? It shifts smoothly when clutch pedal is depressed. Is something broken in the tranny? All opinions welcome.
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Katmanken
post Jul 12 2009, 10:58 AM
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I'm gonna put on my Patent Law and my engineering hats and look at this several different and possably contradictory ways....

When the clutch is slipping and the rear wheels are locked, the tranny drivetrain will rotate a little to take up slop- It's called called windup. Windup in this system happens through all the components from the clutch disk to the wheels.

I'd replace the flywheel bearing for sure. It's cheap and is rotating around the stopped mainshaft.

Which brings up several other points.

Have you measured the flywheel for endplay? When a system loads, things move. I'd check to see if the endplay is OK because if it's not, the flywheel/crank could move and contact things and make noise...

And, are the clutch disk and pressure plate flat? ..... I'd check that because if the clutch disk has a thicker section (lump) and/or the pressure plate has a broken spring and can't push uniformly on the clutch disk, you might get uneven slipping as the disk slips relative to the pressure plate, and then we enter the world of vibrating systems. If the clutch system isn't flat, you could be sending a rotational oscillation (ie a small oscillating clockwise and counter clockwise rotation motion) which will wind up the system and then unwind it. That would rotate some tranny and cv bearings back and forth.

If I understand correctly, when the tranny is in gear and the clutch pedal is fully released, the car should move and the growl should happen. At that point, the flywheel bushing is fixed (non rotating) relative to the main shaft, the clutch is locked relative to the flywheel and main shaft, the tranny pinion shaft and differential start to move and noise happens. At that point, the flywheel bushing and the clutch should be considered non-noise making elements and out of the picture- unless we have some slippage. Is the clutch disk burned or glazed???

I keep coming back to the pinion shaft/differential because it becomes rotatably engaged when two things happen- 1. you are in gear, and two, the engine is driving the wheels. If you look at it from the point of letting off the gas in a moving car with a gear engaged, the rear wheels load the tranny and try to spin the engine .....- wich means the pinion shaft/differential is spinning.......
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Posts in this topic
Porsche Rescue   Need transmission problem diagnosis...   Jun 28 2009, 02:45 PM
Cap'n Krusty   Jack it up, put it on stands, loosen the fill plug...   Jun 28 2009, 03:22 PM
Dr Evil   Sounds like you have a clutch tube or other clutch...   Jun 28 2009, 03:40 PM
Cap'n Krusty   Sounds like you have a clutch tube or other clutc...   Jun 28 2009, 04:56 PM
Dr Evil   Sounds like you have a clutch tube or other clut...   Jun 28 2009, 06:01 PM
Cap'n Krusty   [quote name='Cap'n Krusty' post='1186428' dat...   Jun 28 2009, 08:54 PM
J P Stein   Sorry, Doc, I'm callin' it like I see it...   Jun 28 2009, 09:13 PM
Dr Evil   Sorry, Doc, I'm callin' it like I see i...   Jun 28 2009, 09:54 PM
Cap'n Krusty   [quote name='J P Stein' post='1186504' date='Jun ...   Jun 28 2009, 10:24 PM
Porsche Rescue   I first tightened the clutch adjustment nut as I h...   Jun 28 2009, 05:21 PM
Jacob   As soon as I begin to engage the clutch I hear t...   Jun 28 2009, 05:39 PM
Cap'n Krusty   As soon as I begin to engage the clutch I hear ...   Jun 28 2009, 08:04 PM
Porsche Rescue   Not sure of clutch age. Major engine work about 5K...   Jun 28 2009, 05:52 PM
Dr Evil   Not sure of clutch age. Major engine work about 5...   Jun 28 2009, 06:05 PM
Porsche Rescue   Thanks Dr. I have a second confirming opinion from...   Jun 28 2009, 06:08 PM
J P Stein   I have a good (2 actually but one is NFS) intermed...   Jun 28 2009, 06:51 PM
Porsche Rescue   Ok, but can someone tell me if the "guts...   Jun 28 2009, 09:51 PM
Cap'n Krusty   Ok, but can someone tell me if the "guts...   Jun 28 2009, 10:07 PM
Porsche Rescue   Thank you Cap'n. Sounds like I need to repair ...   Jun 28 2009, 10:16 PM
Dr Evil   Thank you Cap'n. Sounds like I need to repair...   Jun 28 2009, 10:32 PM
RobW   C'mon you guys :hugme:   Jun 28 2009, 10:29 PM
Porsche Rescue   OK, now what? While in the process of removing the...   Jul 2 2009, 09:53 AM
Dr Evil   How it acts under hand torque is completely differ...   Jul 2 2009, 10:42 AM
J P Stein   Tore appart Jim's trans this afternoon. The gu...   Jul 9 2009, 09:02 PM
Dr Evil   That is the problem with doing diagnosis over the ...   Jul 9 2009, 09:21 PM
J P Stein   Everything I can see looks very nice & turns s...   Jul 9 2009, 09:51 PM
Jax914   pilot bearing in the flywheel?   Jul 10 2009, 12:52 PM
Porsche Rescue   Pilot bearing feels good to the pinky finger, look...   Jul 10 2009, 01:08 PM
kwales   You sure it's not the throwout bearing??? I...   Jul 10 2009, 04:13 PM
Porsche Rescue   TO bearing is smooth and quiet in my hand and in t...   Jul 10 2009, 06:12 PM
Dr Evil   Has your flywheel been resurfaced before? If the s...   Jul 11 2009, 10:52 AM
kwales   Ok, let's think this through. Tranny is out o...   Jul 11 2009, 11:51 AM
Porsche Rescue   Growling noise only when tranny in gear (any gear)...   Jul 11 2009, 12:03 PM
kwales   Well, does it growl when the clutch pedal is in an...   Jul 11 2009, 10:24 PM
Porsche Rescue   No noise when in gear with the clutch "in...   Jul 12 2009, 09:27 AM
kwales   I'm gonna put on my Patent Law and my engineer...   Jul 12 2009, 10:58 AM
Porsche Rescue   Noise begins with first clutch contact with flywhe...   Jul 12 2009, 11:05 AM
Porsche Rescue   Here are some pics. One theory is that the center ...   Jul 12 2009, 11:08 AM
kwales   Looks glazed to me. The clutch disk is a two piece...   Jul 12 2009, 11:22 AM
Bleyseng   use the 6 spring clutch disc for a early 911, yes ...   Jul 12 2009, 12:19 PM


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