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> Ultra effecient combustion cars, under 1.5 litre, thoughts, pics, comments, designs, concepts
pete-stevers
post Feb 25 2010, 12:38 PM
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Given todays economic climate, possible scaricity of fuel, and of course just the raw challenge of building a car with high mpg,
we should have a thread on cars of this nature, in production,prototypes,homebuilts, concepts and pictures.
( I wish i had the time and energy to build a car with a sub 1 litre engine, and maybe one day i will)

but lets keep it to combustion power, for now
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Dave_Darling
post Feb 25 2010, 02:47 PM
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Lean burn is no longer in favor because it produces more NOx than current standards allow.

Diesels are vastly popular in most of Europe in large part due to the fuel taxes; diesel fuel is taxed much less heavily than gasoline. In the UK, where the two are taxed a closer amount, gasoline cars are still more popular.

Small lightweight low-powered aerodynamic cars are the most efficient, in general. Ever been in a Geo Metro? Think about using one every day on your commute. And think about the late-chugging makeup-applying screaming-at-children soccer mom in her Expedition. (Or, conversely, the breakfast-eating still-shaving newspaper-reading man in his F150 King Kong Cab pickup.)

I really like my CRX, and it gets by far the most use out of any of the cars we have in my household. But it's definitely not for everyone...

Google "ford probe iv" to see a very aero-slick concept car that got good fuel economy. Wander over to http://www.aerocivic.com for a look at a serious home-brew aerodynamic Civic which is ugly as hell but quite functional. It would be interesting to see what could be done in that vein by someone who wasn't trying to do it as cheap as humanly possible... If we could lose the currently-standard ideas of what makes a car good-looking, we could have cars that got significantly better freeway mileage. But I still couldn't drive the Aero Civic on a daily basis.

Sandy's Sprite (pictured above) should be a hoot to drive, and get at least half-decent mileage. The aero won't be great, but a nice modern modestly-powered engine and light weight should help it get decent numbers.

...Oh, gearing! Can't forget gearing! For cruising steady-state you want the absolute tallest possible gearing you can get. (You can go too far with it, but you are unlikely to with any reasonably-available OEM gears.) One reason the current Vettes get 30 MPG on the freeway is because they can cruise at 60 MPH at something like 1500 RPM. If you had a smaller engine with the same gearing, you would have to use more throttle to maintain that but you'd get even better economy.

More research you can do: Google "throttle pumping loss" and "BFSC map" to get an idea of how efficient different throttle openings are. (Hint: About 75% open is generally better than almost closed.) For tons and tons of ideas, see http://www.ecomodder.com and look for the "master list of modifications" that save gas. Most of them are things we wouldn't choose to do for various reasons (aesthetics, convenience, etc.) but some of them are quite easy and not that obvious.

--DD
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pete-stevers   Ultra effecient combustion cars, under 1.5 litre   Feb 25 2010, 12:38 PM
Jon Fernandes   Europe has always used small engine in small cars,...   Feb 25 2010, 12:52 PM
patssle   Europe has always used small engine in small cars...   Feb 25 2010, 01:09 PM
johannes   That was true in 1950 ...   Feb 26 2010, 06:18 AM
pbanders   The original Audi A2 was a remarkable car: http:/...   Feb 25 2010, 01:00 PM
underthetire   A guy here is putting a Turbo hyabusa 1300 in his ...   Feb 25 2010, 01:00 PM
RobW   I fully expect to convert my Dad's car to elec...   Feb 25 2010, 01:03 PM
6freak   Woodgas ...   Feb 25 2010, 01:11 PM
pete-stevers   Europe has always used small engine in small car...   Feb 25 2010, 01:11 PM
RJMII   I was reading some information on GDI (Gas Direct ...   Feb 25 2010, 01:14 PM
turboman808   I was reading some information on GDI (Gas Direct...   Feb 25 2010, 02:10 PM
kwales   More power in diesel fuel which equates to better ...   Feb 25 2010, 01:25 PM
rick 918-S   100hp factory rated 1.3L twin cam Suzuki Swift GTI...   Feb 25 2010, 01:34 PM
6freak   size matters in a car wreck ..theres more to life ...   Feb 25 2010, 01:36 PM
JJ914GT   That's an MG Midget. ( Oh, wait,.. this isn...   Feb 25 2010, 01:43 PM
Brett W   Can't tow 16K lbs with a 1.4litre toy. Don...   Feb 25 2010, 01:46 PM
wayne1234   We have a 08 Toyota Yaris it is 1.5 liter 106hp. c...   Feb 25 2010, 01:55 PM
Phoenix-MN   I started driving a 2005 Scion xB a few years ago ...   Feb 25 2010, 02:13 PM
wayne1234   As far as small not being safe, I believe it all m...   Feb 25 2010, 02:13 PM
Andyrew   A friend of mine has a 93 honda civic "lean b...   Feb 25 2010, 02:14 PM
davep   The best mileage of any car I've ever owned wa...   Feb 25 2010, 02:23 PM
pete-stevers   i wonder what jake could do to a 1.7 to make it ev...   Feb 25 2010, 02:34 PM
pbanders   FWIW, my commute car is a 2009 Honda Fit Sport, wi...   Feb 25 2010, 02:35 PM
RoninEclipse2G   There is a lot to be said for the guys that are dr...   Feb 25 2010, 02:35 PM
pete-stevers   How about the VW Polo, 1.3 G40? that would be a ni...   Feb 25 2010, 02:45 PM
Dave_Darling   Lean burn is no longer in favor because it produce...   Feb 25 2010, 02:47 PM
RobW   Lean burn is no longer in favor because it produc...   Feb 26 2010, 07:55 AM
messix   my get to work beater is a '95 geo metro, i dr...   Feb 25 2010, 02:53 PM
messix   talk about old cars new engines... i'd love to...   Feb 25 2010, 03:10 PM
patssle   My college car was a 1996 Chevy Beretta. A decent ...   Feb 25 2010, 03:17 PM
RoninEclipse2G   DD, that article on the AeroCivic got me thinking ...   Feb 25 2010, 06:17 PM
Gigamight   My favorite gas-sipper was my 92 Honda Civic VX. I...   Feb 25 2010, 06:43 PM
Todd Enlund   I think that a TDI 914 would be cool, and should b...   Feb 25 2010, 09:18 PM
Dr Evil   Someday I WILL do a respectable TDI into 914 conve...   Feb 26 2010, 12:12 AM
veltror   Diesels are vastly popular in most of Europe in...   Feb 26 2010, 04:42 AM
zymurgist   I could get 37 mpg in my RSX if I drove slower. I...   Feb 26 2010, 05:42 AM
johannes   This is the concept of the future. http://www.lore...   Feb 26 2010, 06:33 AM
zymurgist   One of my friends (who drives an RSX Type S) goes ...   Feb 26 2010, 07:28 AM
johannes   That's true but Diesel is also more efficien...   Feb 26 2010, 08:07 AM
Brett W   http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/con...fe_st...   Feb 26 2010, 08:21 AM
zymurgist   One of the reasons that diesel cars aren't all...   Feb 26 2010, 08:25 AM
Bleyseng   My 2003 1.8T Passat got 35-40 mpg without problem ...   Feb 26 2010, 08:35 AM
pete-stevers   Hey Geoff...good to see you!   Feb 26 2010, 01:13 PM
Dave_Darling   Interesting about the diesels in the UK. And I di...   Feb 26 2010, 03:15 PM
zymurgist   Ken, diesel is cheaper than supreme unleaded gaso...   Feb 26 2010, 05:47 PM
pete-stevers   Dave thanks for your contribution I am of the mind...   Feb 26 2010, 05:15 PM
Todd Enlund   Dave thanks for your contribution I am of the min...   Mar 1 2010, 05:12 PM
pete-stevers   I think the route i would go in a build up of this...   Feb 28 2010, 12:56 PM
pete-stevers   i wonder what jake could do to a 1.7 to make it e...   Feb 28 2010, 09:58 PM
Vacca Rabite   i wonder what jake could do to a 1.7 to make it ...   Mar 1 2010, 08:42 AM
johannes   It would not be too hard, but would cost a littl...   Mar 1 2010, 10:15 AM
Vacca Rabite   - Tall transmission gearing / In my opinion the 9...   Mar 1 2010, 10:20 AM
johannes   There was a thread about that where Jake explained...   Mar 1 2010, 06:22 AM
Brett W   There is nothing wrong with turning some rpm. My ...   Mar 1 2010, 01:31 PM
underthetire   I don't understand why everyone thinks low RPM...   Mar 1 2010, 06:18 PM
Dave_Darling   I don't understand why everyone thinks low RP...   Mar 2 2010, 05:15 PM
johannes   Low RPM means less friction that means better effi...   Mar 2 2010, 06:29 AM


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