Engine upgrade options Options

[patssle]

I might be interesting in taking out the engine of my car and swapping with something better sometime down the road in the future. Currently it's an old VW bus motor, no horsepower, some ok torque in 1st and 2nd, but nothing after that.

I did some searching, and came across a few threads - but are there any good previous threads or articles out there that touch on each engine option available to upgrade to in the 914? Cost, benefits, pros/cons, etc. I know there was a poll once asking which upgrade to do - but could not find it.

Thanks!

[jmill]

A flat six conversion done right (some believe conversions are never right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) ) is expensive.

I'm building one now and figured it would cost me around 10K. I was wrong. It'll cost close to that just for the engine. Add oil tank, exhaust, oil lines and cooler, brake and suspension upgrades, tires, flares, throttle and trans cable/linkage, axles and CV's just to name some off the top of my head. It adds up real quick.

A big four is by far the best bang for the buck.

All of us have opinions. Don't let others sway yours with words like "sacrificed, compromised and bastardized." How many older 911s are getting converted to the 3.6? How many Chevelles and Novas are driving around with the original straight 6's or 305's? I don't see guys telling those folks they should have stuck with the original 6 and three on the tree.

Do what you want to do. It's your car not theirs. I felt the 914 should have never come from the factory with the four. If you were born with a wart on your nose wouldn't you cut it off? There, that's my opinion. You'll get 100 others.

[Jake Raby]

All of us have opinions. Don't let others sway yours with words like "sacrificed, compromised and bastardized."

Like I stated, if you will NEVER sell the car and know that you'll NEVER be in a position where you'd HAVE to sell the car the resale possibilities and the future may not matter. The fact is in some way the smart person building a custom vehicle of any kind must at least consider who else may share their same wants and desires when building a car.

Hell, I know I am not going to live in my current house forever, so when Beth and I remodeled the entire place ourselves we took into consideration what other people might want as well, not just what I wanted or she wanted at this particular moment. I even thought about what I thought people might want in 3-5 years when we do sell it.

Originality seems to stay in style with Porsches and other vehicles as well, thats something that can also be added to, but sometimes you' can't ever go back there once "bastardized" enough..

I deal with folks who are making decisions about their investment and whats the best bang for the buck today and tomorrow all the time. As conversions have become more of an attraction in recent time I deal with more of the questions. people have told me their reasons for staying /4 and thats generally for the simplicity and ability to make very few modifications to optimize the package, generally meaning the vehicle is unaltered. The vehicle retains its character that differentiates it from others and according to what engine is applied it might even become a little more special than any other 4 cylinder. It might even dust a -6 or have people assume that it is a -6 because its so blistering fast.

How many older 911s are getting converted to the 3.6?

....and how many 356s are being converted to TIV power? We'be built 1/2 dozen this year already. I am sorry, but converting a 914 to a -6 or converting a 356 to a TIV is much different than applying a SBC V8 into a 911. Who wants those cars? They are not generally (and historically) Porsche enthusiasts.

How many Chevelles and Novas are driving around with the original straight 6's or 305's?

How many have Jaguar engines installed?? How many have Suby engines installed? A suby makes more power today as a -6 than most SBC engines do and can be installed for 1/2 the price, but do you see that? Don't see a lot of "cross-dressing" in other markets.

I don't see guys telling those folks they should have stuck with the original 6 and three on the tree.

Nope and its absolutely fine and dandy if they throw another engine of the same "breed" in place to be bigger and faster. The difference is a 6 cylinder American car was just a cheaper version of that same car in V8 form, change the motor mounts, front springs and maybe the bellhouse and the V8 will drop right in.

Guess what, thats just like putting a big TIV into a 356, which is generally a welcomed thing for all but the most rare cars and is becoming a mainstream conversion for those who want to drive their cars.

Do what you want to do. It's your car not theirs.

Until one day when you decide to sell it to one of "them", whether you want to or not. The actions that are taken now directly impact those who may be interested in the car in 10 or 20 years and unfortunately things pop up that require cars to be sold at times and when that happens you want something desirable by the crowd that still has money and is willing to spend it. The economy we are seeing now has proven that, those with money today have it because they didn't make lousy decisions and didn't over commit when most everyone else did. They are still spending it, we are busier than ever!

This group of people is who you want to have appreciate your car if it ever needs to be liquidated without a loss and done quickly.

So what "they" think doesn't matter until the money in "their" wallet needs to fill yours.

I felt the 914 should have never come from the factory with the four

.
....and I feel that they should have never had anything else.

If you were born with a wart on your nose wouldn't you cut it off?

Unless that "wart" or imperfection builds some character... or is memorable in some way to a particular group.. Cindy Crawford and Marilyn Monroe could have had cosmetic surgery to remove certain "trademarks", but neither did..

There, that's my opinion. You'll get 100 others.

And theres mine...

A -6 conversion keeps character and adds to a 914s value in the eyes of the right people.. The -6 conversion will always be accepted by those who will spend the price of admission for a nice 914, just like a properly sorted and equipped-4 914 down the road.

Now I'll answer some questions that were posed:

So basically for your "RAT Turn Key engine making 140-185HP using carbs- 10-12K dyno tuned", the customer provides the 2.0 914 engine, and you turn it into that?

Yes. The engine is 100% complete, dyno tuned and needs no break in period.

I might of missed it, is there a page on your website that explains what you do to the engine?

'
The engine is completely reconstructed with all original flaws addressed and then its properly made more "healthy". It comes in a crate so complete that if fuel, ignition and a starter was attached that it would fire up and run while sitting in the crate. I have had customers test fire engines in their crates before!

There is no page to describe what we do to every engine, because each is different- these aren't cookie cutters that are kept on a shelf. No two engines come to us needing the same items addressed. No two purchasers have the same set of desires, so we build and design engines based on wants, needs and what the application demands. Today about every component internally is replaced except the crankcase and crank gears, to include crank, heads, cam, lifters and etc. On the outside we reuse sheet metal, but its powdercoated. Its as close to "NEW" as is possible.

I don't want 90 hp. I don't need a 3.6L. Do I want to spend 15k? Preferably not. But if you could tell me I can get 150-200 hp with 10k in cash...that would be thought provoking

.
You can do 150HP for that price, because the sub systems required to meet the engine's capabilities are much less. On the other hand 200HP is another ball game, the required exhaust currently costs near 2K, but I am working to ensure thats a thing of the past and we are close right now.

150HP is what the 914 responds best to, it requires no tranny mods and no crazy brake mods to maintain a well balanced package. More power than 150 generally can't be used and is good for nothing more than bragging rights for a street vehicle. Keep the car simple, keep it light and nimble and keep it mostly original.

Staying aircooled would be nice, but not required.

Thats the mindset that most have... You can take many routes with less expense, but some things are worth so much more in the long run

A ~$10k big hp large 4 is the best bang for the buck, even if it doesn't seem like it when writing the big check

Who ever thought that one day that would be a true statement?? It took well over a decade of application for a lot of people to open their eyes to this reality.

Thanks Jake, that may be the best summary of RAT possibilities I've seen!
So when budgeting for one of these, does that "double + 10%" guideline still apply? (Not asked in jest.)

No, since we know what it takes to produce the engine and know what hidden costs are related to it's installation lots of those variables are no longer. I know what it takes to make my engine live, the same things that I equipped it with during testing an application in my own vehicle over and over again.. I have one car that has had more than 80 engines installed into it.